USA/Canada Delivery Thread

[kin]

So wait, is "full swing" for US production just having some peppered in amongst all others, or is this post somewhat misleading?

I want to be excited, but like, one of these things is not like the other...

Full swing is both - they're doing 40 cars per day, if they did all US productions only, they'd be done in like 2 months lol. They're mixing US production with rest of world production. This doesn't mean that US production isn't in full swing though. US production is in full swing and they're also building cars for rest of world at the same time.

 

[MIGZ]

Interesting! So the LED light above the reflector was the only indication they were US cars?

No , there are other things you don’t see that are unique to the US car.

For example the sensor in the seats are different driven by Us regulation.

I saw them with my own eyes, its a much larger sensor that covers more of the seating area more contact points.

 

[robrmon]

@MIGZ
Forgive me if this has been answered already, but in your view of the headlight cluster and the indicator, are you saying it looked the same, or different to what we had been seeing previously.

 

[MIGZ]

Look I get that it sucks that its taken a long time and that Lotus has not communicated what its doing.

After my trip and talking to the people I spoke with I have increased confidence in that it’s closer pending approvals. Lotus had some very difficult challenges that are now behind them but were difficult to overcome. They continue to bring on engineers from big brands to help them improve.

One giant take away and reminder was the cultural differences between the US and the UK. Which I am starting to believe is driving the frustration.

Americans feel entitled as if it is our right to know everything at every moment and then be allowed to voice our concern and have someone act upon it, basically be a “Karen”.

Just look through this thread lotus is damned if they do damned if they don’t. Someone will always complain.

The British system is different you know what the monarchy wants you to know when they want you to know. People may get frustrated but it’s the culture.

At its core Lotus and the folks running the show at Hethel are British and we are getting the British way. We may want and expect different and as they grow and mature as a global company will be forced to realize certain markets require more info.

None the less - I have zero concern at the moment from what I saw. I see several folks remain skeptical which is fine and fits right into American culture.

Everyone will have to decide what they want to do, allow delays to consume them or just realize that they will show up when they show up. If the unknown is too much to deal with cancel and move on remove the unknown.

 

[EspritGuy]

Look I get that it sucks that its taken a long time and that Lotus has not communicated what its doing.

After my trip and talking to the people I spoke with I have increased confidence in that it’s closer pending approvals. Lotus had some very difficult challenges that are now behind them but were difficult to overcome. They continue to bring on engineers from big brands to help them improve.

One giant take away and reminder was the cultural differences between the US and the UK. Which I am starting to believe is driving the frustration.

Americans feel entitled as if it is our right to know everything at every moment and then be allowed to voice our concern and have someone act upon it, basically be a “Karen”.

Just look through this thread lotus is damned if they do damned if they don’t. Someone will always complain.

The British system is different you know what the monarchy wants you to know when they want you to know. People may get frustrated but it’s the culture.

At its core Lotus and the folks running the show at Hethel are British and we are getting the British way. We may want and expect different and as they grow and mature as a global company will be forced to realize certain markets require more info.

None the less - I have zero concern at the moment from what I saw. I see several folks remain skeptical which is fine and fits right into American culture.

Everyone will have to decide what they want to do, allow delays to consume them or just realize that they will show up when they show up. If the unknown is too much to deal with cancel and move on remove the unknown.

You did this Forum a huge favor with your postings, for which I am most appreciative. And I get the cultural differences. But this is supposedly a global business adhering to modern business practices.
Lotus began well with the launch and initial depositor communications. Our expectations were set. They established the tone and set the bar high, but stepped away as bad news mounted on delays and price hikes. Matt's video gave us hope in that he was candid about the situation but ultimately didn't walk the talk. Disappointment began to spread.
I don't feel (as someone with a communications background) being informed represents a demand or entitlement. Keeping in touch is part of a business transaction. So is good will, if you want to grow. Respect is also part of a product offering.
This Emira journey started well and I hope it ends well. And I'm glad mates like you are part of it.

 

[Porter]

One giant take away and reminder was the cultural differences between the US and the UK. Which I am starting to believe is driving the frustration.

Americans feel entitled as if it is our right to know everything at every moment and then be allowed to voice our concern and have someone act upon it, basically be a “Karen”.

Just look through this thread lotus is damned if they do damned if they don’t. Someone will always complain.

The British system is different you know what the monarchy wants you to know when they want you to know. People may get frustrated but it’s the culture. At its core Lotus and the folks running the show at Hethel are British and we are getting the British way. We may want and expect different and as they grow and mature as a global company will be forced to realize certain markets require more info.

We literally fought a war of independence with the UK based upon the idea of individual rights and self-determination. You can call that "being a Karen" if you want to, but we write big checks with our principles and then cash them with our lives.

We still demand disclosure and transparency from government, from publicly traded companies, and even from some private entities in certain situations, and all of that is a cultural response to the many, many indignities of living under British rule. Formerly colonized nations around the world have made a similar big-picture "vote" over time about what value they perceived in the "English way" and I think the consensus is pretty clearly in at this point.

Apologies to my UK friends if I offend, but the class system sucks and you know it. You're all victims of it, you're just trained and coached from birth to tolerate it. And these information-witholding games are just part of the impulse to class control. It may be baked in to English culture, but it isn't any less intentionally disrespectful by being so, and it makes an American (who understands the manufactured power differential) want to punch someone in the face.

 

[Aero]

I've seen(pretty sure) UK customers get notified when their cars were headed to actual build on the line. Is that only for the UK direct sales model? Does anyone know if the US dealers will be notified when their individual cars (allocations) are being built/headed to real production?
Be nice to get real feedback once our cars are actually headed to production.

 

[MIGZ]

WOAH !! I did not intent to start world war III, just a statemen of my observation.

Culture matters and it does impact business I'm literally all over the world all the time and see the difference. As an American I have to adjust my expectations.

I'm not saying that what Lotus has done is right its just that I understand the cultural approach. Don't expect anyone to agree with me again just my observation.

Again I'm not that bothered with the delay, I have said from day one I would prefer that car to be right when I get it. If that takes more time so let it be. At this point I'm not paying on anything, imagine how mad some of you will be to get a car that has issues and you just spend 100K for a car with issues.

 

[Eagle7]

By now it's pretty obvious that the people running Lotus Hethel aren't narcissists. They clearly don't understand the emotional, high-maintenance, demanding personality type who wants constant attention, and if they don't get it, they go into outrage mode. So far it doesn't look like changing to accommodate that personality type is on the list of priorities for Lotus. I'm sure they know it's going to cost them a few orders, but with an order book 3 years deep, it doesn't seem to be bothering them too much.

I take a look at the cancelled thread now and then, and I'm amazed at the viciousness of some of the posts; like jilted lovers, or someone who's just been served divorce papers and recoils in hatred and denouncement.

Lotus Hethel is a very small company that makes specialty sports cars. They're not a social media outlet. In today's world where the internet feeds the narcissism in today's society on a 24/7 basis, even to the point of streaming live, Lotus does not fit in. It doesn't appear they care to either. To some, that's an outrage and they are cancelling. To others like me, I'm just patiently waiting for my car. When it arrives, I'm not likely to be on social media talking about it much; I'll be in it... driving.

When I look at it overall, we have 2,000 members on this forum, and there's probably a dozen or less who are the most vocal. We rarely if ever see anything from the overwhelmingly vast majority. Sometimes I wonder what they think of the demanding dozen. We'll probably never know.

For me, it'll get here when it gets here. When our cars do start to arrive in the U.S., it'll be a relief that we've at least gotten past that chapter of "As The Bitch-Fest Turns", and we can begin a new chapter for people complaining about...whatever, because I know it's coming. However I hope we start to see hundreds of comments from the new owners here in the U.S. about their experiences, and that they're positive for the most part.

So, having said all that, to parody the famous words of Monty Python: "And now, for something completely different, a wave of righteous indignation and self-justification." And to all of that I say: keep calm and carry on, the bombing will stop.

 

[KCMO68_510]

Everyone chill... like I've said many times before, it's like Grandma's at Thanksgiving. It will be ready when it's ready, and Grandma is in the corner being silent because she's upset it's not ready yet too. Grandma is well intentioned and wants to give you something you'll love and remember.

 

[NicolasB]

Look I get that it sucks that its taken a long time and that Lotus has not communicated what its doing.

After my trip and talking to the people I spoke with I have increased confidence in that it’s closer pending approvals. Lotus had some very difficult challenges that are now behind them but were difficult to overcome. They continue to bring on engineers from big brands to help them improve.

One giant take away and reminder was the cultural differences between the US and the UK. Which I am starting to believe is driving the frustration.

Americans feel entitled as if it is our right to know everything at every moment and then be allowed to voice our concern and have someone act upon it, basically be a “Karen”.

Just look through this thread lotus is damned if they do damned if they don’t. Someone will always complain.

The British system is different you know what the monarchy wants you to know when they want you to know. People may get frustrated but it’s the culture.

At its core Lotus and the folks running the show at Hethel are British and we are getting the British way. We may want and expect different and as they grow and mature as a global company will be forced to realize certain markets require more info.

None the less - I have zero concern at the moment from what I saw. I see several folks remain skeptical which is fine and fits right into American culture.

Everyone will have to decide what they want to do, allow delays to consume them or just realize that they will show up when they show up. If the unknown is too much to deal with cancel and move on remove the unknown.

Hence the reason British car companies have very little success stateside, while Germans thrive. I ordered my new BMW a month ago and I already know that will be starting production in 2 weeks and I will have it before the end of the year, and it's a special edition, not just a run of the mill model.

Edit: The point I was trying to make is that I have already been updated by my salesman, and I can log on to their website and track the vehicle at every step of production. I realize BMW is a much larger operation than what's going on at Hethel, but these types of things, in the scheme of it all, are not difficult to implement nor expensive.

 

[benjh1028]

By now it's pretty obvious that the people running Lotus Hethel aren't narcissists. They clearly don't understand the emotional, high-maintenance, demanding personality type who wants constant attention, and if they don't get it, they go into outrage mode. So far it doesn't look like changing to accommodate that personality type is on the list of priorities for Lotus. I'm sure they know it's going to cost them a few orders, but with an order book 3 years deep, it doesn't seem to be bothering them too much.

I take a look at the cancelled thread now and then, and I'm amazed at the viciousness of some of the posts; like jilted lovers, or someone who's just been served divorce papers and recoils in hatred and denouncement.

Lotus Hethel is a very small company that makes specialty sports cars. They're not a social media outlet. In today's world where the internet feeds the narcissism in today's society on a 24/7 basis, even to the point of streaming live, Lotus does not fit in. It doesn't appear they care to either. To some, that's an outrage and they are cancelling. To others like me, I'm just patiently waiting for my car. When it arrives, I'm not likely to be on social media talking about it much; I'll be in it... driving.

When I look at it overall, we have 2,000 members on this forum, and there's probably a dozen or less who are the most vocal. We rarely if ever see anything from the overwhelmingly vast majority. Sometimes I wonder what they think of the demanding dozen. We'll probably never know.

For me, it'll get here when it gets here. When our cars do start to arrive in the U.S., it'll be a relief that we've at least gotten past that chapter of "As The Bitch-Fest Turns", and we can begin a new chapter for people complaining about...whatever, because I know it's coming. However I hope we start to see hundreds of comments from the new owners here in the U.S. about their experiences, and that they're positive for the most part.

So, having said all that, to parody the famous words of Monty Python: "And now, for something completely different, a wave of righteous indignation and self-justification." And to all of that I say: keep calm and carry on, the bombing will stop.

Going to have to agree to disagree on a few points here - and maybe a bit offended. I believe most here - and by most I mean those that are consistently adding to this thread - are NOT emotional, demanding types that want constant attention. All we ask for is transparency and to be kept in the loop. If Lotus held a video call to discuss why the delays are occurring and what the expected range of delivery times might be I think most here would be satisfied. If they would have sent out a message before the latest price increase with something to the effect of "we missed the mark on pricing because of unforeseen post-Covid supplier issues and cannot deliver for our intended price....." or whatever real reason I believe most here would have said "okay, I understand". Nothing that screams "I want attention", but just keeping the consumer informed. Hell, if they blasted an email out now stating they want to work out the known flaws before shipping to NA most here would welcome a realistic delay. It's not that people here are entitled children, it's that there is a minimum standard that is expected after you write a deposit check and in many cases sell other vehicles to make room.

Yeah Lotus is a small company, but it is owned by a large industrial with a market value of almost $12-billion. This cannot be ignored.

And Lotus HAS a social media department that were very good with the splash announcements of the Emira and subsequent e-vehicles. Big productions with big budgets. It's 2023, and they seemed to fit in very well during the deposit phase.

 

[vdr]

Hence the reason British car companies have very little success stateside, while Germans thrive. I ordered my new BMW a month ago and I already know that will be starting production in 2 weeks and I will have it before the end of the year, and it's a special edition, not just a run of the mill model.

There's examples of communication failure in BOTH countries. My Porsche Taycan was in actual production for MONTHS without a word from either Porsche, Porsche NA or my dealer as to why this happened and when it would finally be released to port. I received my car 10 months after I ordered it and it was a full model year old upon delivery. At collection the satellite radio didn't work and my dealer suggested I leave it alone when he inquired "will you even listen to Sirius XM?" which to my mind was his way of abdicating responsibility of fixing the issue on a $140k car. MY experience w/ PCNA was borderline abysmal.

McLaren, on the other hand, was the best experience I've ever had with purchasing a car. They kept me informed throughout the production process and, both, the manufacturer and dealer seemed genuinely appreciative of my business; even offering to setup a factory tour if I was so inclined. And... oh yeah.... gues what? They even had paint samples! As we know , they're a small volume British car manufacturer just like Lotus but, in my experience, they have a much better handle as to how to placate the US market.

 

[EspritGuy]

Any word from the mimes at Lotus?

I missed this at first blush, but damn that's funny.
Mimes the word.

 

[Maurice R]

People I have bitched and voiced my comments many times good and bad.
Have also said it’s a damn car and will be imo a fantastic one
When it gets here I will enjoy it and drive the shit out of it
If there are problems the dealership will take care of the issues.
My dealership has been fantastic at taking care of my Evora for the last 2.5 years

 

[Porter]

They clearly don't understand the emotional, high-maintenance, demanding personality type who wants constant attention, and if they don't get it, they go into outrage mode.

"Kids these days!"

You sound like a bitter grandpa complaining about the degeneracy of the younger generations. Get a clue. The people who are upset put thousands of dollars down and then got treated like chumps by a company that doesn't seem to care whether they alienate their customers.

So, having said all that, to parody the famous words of Monty Python: "And now, for something completely different, a wave of righteous indignation and self-justification." And to all of that I say: keep calm and carry on, the bombing will stop.

If you think Monty Python would agree with anything you're saying here, then you missed the entire message of their work, which was unabashedly anti-classist and politically subversive. The idea of a company taking thousands of pounds in deposit from a customer and then pointedly ignoring them for over 2 years is exactly the kind of entitled English class disdain behavior that they would have lampooned without reservation.

 

[KAR120C]

No , there are other things you don’t see that are unique to the US car.

For example the sensor in the seats are different driven by Us regulation.

I saw them with my own eyes, its a much larger sensor that covers more of the seating area more contact points.

Cool! I really meant visual cues, but those little hidden things are the bits we never know about. Did they show you anything else that is US regulated that we'd miss visually?

 

[benjh1028]

No , there are other things you don’t see that are unique to the US car.

For example the sensor in the seats are different driven by Us regulation.

I saw them with my own eyes, its a much larger sensor that covers more of the seating area more contact points.

I think this sensor information is great info - thanks! That along with side marker difference really reaffirms those cars are bound for NA.

But I do wonder if the sensors are larger because of the perceived "weight issues" of the U.S. drivers and that your tour guide was being nice and said it is a regulatory reason.......?

 

[KAR120C]

I've seen(pretty sure) UK customers get notified when their cars were headed to actual build on the line. Is that only for the UK direct sales model? Does anyone know if the US dealers will be notified when their individual cars (allocations) are being built/headed to real production?
Be nice to get real feedback once our cars are actually headed to production.

I hope so, but if I remember correctly with my Evora S (almost 10 years ago), information remained pretty general. Specific information didn't really become available until the car was completed and in transit to the US.

 

[Porter]

I think this sensor information is great info - thanks! That along with side marker difference really reaffirms those cars are bound for NA.

But I do wonder if the sensors are larger because of the perceived "weight issues" of the U.S. drivers and that your tour guide was being nice and said it is a regulatory reason.......?

It's due to US regulations about auto-defeat of the passenger airbag if no passenger is present. That's actually insurance industry led, to reduce interior damage in a collision with a single occupant. I think they do this in the EU as well.

But in the US it's also supposed to auto-defeat if a child seat is installed, for safety, since pyrotechnic airbag deployment can injure a child that is restrained by a multi-point harness. A child seat with a child in it has some considerable weight, which makes the seat sensors a more complex thing to measure and calibrate for.

These differences in regulation make a "world car" a difficult thing to build, in practice. Japan has some differences along the same lines for their market, as well as different sight line requirements for their different minimum and maximum body morphology standards.