USA/Canada Delivery Thread

[Lotustoronto]

not wanting to bust any hopes of pending law suits... but I believe if there is no VIN# on your contract it becomes nullified after 90 days.

The only avenue for lawsuit would be advertising law. In the fact no customer received a car at the advertised price. As far as the contracts that state MSRP only or price etc. only matters if there is a VIN number or it is signed within 90 days of completing the purchase. At least that is how it works in Canada. Lotus can raise pricing whenever they would like. This is simply a bait and switch case, not contract law case.

 

[kitkat]

I didn’t mean to whip up a fever storm with legal talk. I’m just going to wait until Lotus either does or doesn’t raise prices.

 

[Guest142]

I'm committed. All in. It's the Emira or nothing for me.

 

[Porter]

not wanting to bust any hopes of pending law suits... but I believe if there is no VIN# on your contract it becomes nullified after 90 days.

The only avenue for lawsuit would be advertising law. In the fact no customer received a car at the advertised price. As far as the contracts that state MSRP only or price etc. only matters if there is a VIN number or it is signed within 90 days of completing the purchase. At least that is how it works in Canada. Lotus can raise pricing whenever they would like. This is simply a bait and switch case, not contract law case.

That part doesn't really matter to me. It's not about winning on the merits, it's the financial chaos that would ensue at Lotus from 100+ simultaneous small claims actions in almost as many different jurisdictions. All of which they would lose by default and incur summary judgment if they fail to appear.

Legal deterrence is a real public power in the United States. It takes a little organizing, but it's no joke.

 

[kitkat]

Another small update from my US dealer:

Paraphrasing: They hope that their FE customers are protected from any price increases, they say they have placed orders @ stated MSRP and they should be honoring that.

My Opinion: Other than hoping, I'm not sure how much control they have. Sounds like each dealer has a different idea of what is or isn't price protected. Hopefully we get some clarity soon.

 

[kitkat]

From EuroCar in Orange County, California.

 

[DerTheDer]

From EuroCar in Orange County, California.

Still have not received anything official on my end. But this conjecture is good news at least!

 

[KAR120C]

Still have not received anything official on my end. But this conjecture is good news at least!

Seems like we now have a few different dealers confirming it from Lotus USA, and it's a consistent communication. So, I think we're safe in the US.

 

[trackday14]

Seems like we now have a few different dealers confirming it from Lotus USA, and it's a consistent communication. So, I think we're safe in the US.

My dealer confirmed no price increases to me yesterday.

 

[MIGZ]

Great News on no price increases

 

[Captain.Kirk]

I believe in Canada, the new Emira pricing with the increase will be far above 718 GTS/GT4.

A GT4 base MSRP in Canada is 122K (718 Spyder is 118K)

Emira V6 F/E (assuming 8% increase) is 130K
I know they said no increase to V6 F/E, but since Canada only received 70 allocations... this will only make 70 people happy.

Assuming that the base V6 + options will be even higher than that price, putting a base Emira V6 with F/E options in and around 140K

Nope sorry, I will wait until base pricing is revealed, but if Lotus thinks they are going to be priced in Canada/US the same as a base 992 Carrera T or a fully specced 718 Spyder with carbon buckets, full leather and Burmeister......

Even the base i4 will be above GTS 4.0 pricing - Sorry but Lotus is not competitive at all in our market, at least not to Porsche. But I will hold judgement until Q3 2023, a full 2 years since my deposit before I even know how much the car or options will cost.

What an absolutely terribly run organization.

Agreed, and that’s why I’ve said I’m out.

As amazing as the Emira looks it’s simply not worth that much money. Assuming these prices, it’s not competitively priced. And then there’s the QC issues.

Lotus is playing games with it’s NA customers and hoping to hook people with higher priced and higher margined base + models.

Lotus is playing a game that could backfire big time.

 

[Nova]

There are plenty of rich Chinese in Canada who will snap this up because they don't want to be caught in yet another Porsche. That would cause them to lose face.

 

[Eagle7]

Agreed, and that’s why I’ve said I’m out.

As amazing as the Emira looks it’s simply not worth that much money. Assuming these prices, it’s not competitively priced. And then there’s the QC issues.

Lotus is playing games with it’s NA customers and hoping to hook people with higher priced and higher margined base + models.

Lotus is playing a game that could backfire big time.

I think this is an over-reaction. When pricing was determined, that was before the turmoil really hit the global market, especially the sudden onslaught of inflation. Matt said in one of Harry's videos that their logistics costs had quadrupled over what they had originally forecast and budgeted for. That's not something they can ignore.

We have no idea what the price increases are for all the parts and assemblies for non-FE cars are. Order quantities for the FE production run were already fixed before all this nonsense hit everything. All of their suppliers have probably experienced the same logistics increases that Lotus did, and those increases are going to get passed on up the line. Then you have inflation, currency exchange rates, and the increase in the cost of money. None of that was a 'plan' by Lotus, but it certainly has an impact on them.

Every auto manufacturer is struggling with these same issues, and it's had, and continues to have an effect on their production, schedules and pricing. Because Lotus is a very small volume producer, they don't get the same economy of scale advantages the big players do, like Porsche, Mercedes, etc. so they're probably experiencing bigger cost increases as a result.

It's all terribly unfortunate because the car is so beautiful, and its price point inspired a lot of interest from people, which was exactly what Lotus wanted, but it has to be incredibly frustrating on their side of things to have seemingly everything under the sun trying to stop them.

 

[scarzie]

I think this is an over-reaction. When pricing was determined, that was before the turmoil really hit the global market, especially the sudden onslaught of inflation. Matt said in one of Harry's videos that their logistics costs had quadrupled over what they had originally forecast and budgeted for. That's not something they can ignore.

We have no idea what the price increases are for all the parts and assemblies for non-FE cars are. Order quantities for the FE production run were already fixed before all this nonsense hit everything. All of their suppliers have probably experienced the same logistics increases that Lotus did, and those increases are going to get passed on up the line. Then you have inflation, currency exchange rates, and the increase in the cost of money. None of that was a 'plan' by Lotus, but it certainly has an impact on them.

Every auto manufacturer is struggling with these same issues, and it's had, and continues to have an effect on their production, schedules and pricing. Because Lotus is a very small volume producer, they don't get the same economy of scale advantages the big players do, like Porsche, Mercedes, etc. so they're probably experiencing bigger cost increases as a result.

It's all terribly unfortunate because the car is so beautiful, and its price point inspired a lot of interest from people, which was exactly what Lotus wanted, but it has to be incredibly frustrating on their side of things to have seemingly everything under the sun trying to stop them.

Logistics costs were basically hitting peak when they announced pricing and they’ve come down significantly. Not near pre pandemic levels but they were way worse off when they announced. I import a dozen or so containers a month and pricing has leveled off for some time

 

[idleuser]

Logistics costs were basically hitting peak when they announced pricing and they’ve come down significantly. Not near pre pandemic levels but they were way worse off when they announced. I import a dozen or so containers a month and pricing has leveled off for some time

Yep, Lotus is still blaming logistics when container cost has gone down close to 2019 parity. Lotus manufacturing in 2023 is still using JIT.

Outside of the ukraine situation for lasers and harnesses I would say poor management has more to do with the delays than actually having enough labor to build cars.

 

[kitkat]

Yep, Lotus is still blaming logistics when container cost has gone down close to 2019 parity. Lotus manufacturing in 2023 is still using JIT.

Outside of the ukraine situation for lasers and harnesses I would say poor management has more to do with the delays than actually having enough labor to build cars.

I really feel this — the “everyone else has the same issues” excuse only lasts so long. So many cars from other manufacturers have gone from prototype to announcement to order books to deliveries in a fraction of the time that Lotus has had to deliver the Emira.

This excuse needs to just stop.

 

[Porter]

Agreed, and that’s why I’ve said I’m out.

As amazing as the Emira looks it’s simply not worth that much money. Assuming these prices, it’s not competitively priced. And then there’s the QC issues.

Lotus is playing games with it’s NA customers and hoping to hook people with higher priced and higher margined base + models.

Lotus is playing a game that could backfire big time.

All the communications that people have received from US dealers indicates that there will be no price increase in our market. So I don't know what you're on about.

 

[Nova]

Yea, I thought blaming logistics was a bit odd. Those issues are, knock on wood, behind us. We did have some price increases from suppliers but I remember those were mostly figured out in the summer of 2022. If they increase prices now, they should use labor costs as an excuse because I believe that really moved up in the second half of 2022.

 

[Porter]

Yea, I thought blaming logistics was a bit odd. Those issues are, knock on wood, behind us. We did have some price increases from suppliers but I remember those were mostly figured out in the summer of 2022. If they increase prices now, they should use labor costs as an excuse because I believe that really moved up in the second half of 2022.

I wonder if they are including vehicle storage and third party PDI in "logistics". Remember they had to store a huge number of cars awaiting parts. Costs associated with storage damage (rusted/seized brakes) could also go in that category.

 

[kitkat]

All the communications that people have received from US dealers indicates that there will be no price increase in our market. So I don't know what you're on about.

He’s from Canada not USA. Canada got a tiny little 70 car allotment for FEs, so the majority of Canadians are getting a price increase for their deliveries.

This thread topic is US and Canada car deliveries.