Another trip around the buoy that is Lotus customer service...

[TomE]

Moderator edit: posts related to Lotus customer service moved from the KEF thread into a new thread here

What else does TomE know…

Stuff about the i4 that I have never been allowed to publish. And a bunch of other stuff told to me in confidence.

If they pushed my early allocation back 2 months I'd spill ALL the beans.
Just saying....

I am - in political parlance - “considering my position”.

After the “not going to explain your delay” email from Customer Care last week, I’m waiting for a response to my follow up. What I do next depends on that. Want to see if the apparent link between my extra delay and forum activity, as hinted at in the email, is disproved.

 

[KJD]

Stuff about the i4 that I have never been allowed to publish. And a bunch of other stuff told to me in confidence.


I am - in political parlance - “considering my position”.

After the “not going to explain your delay” email from Customer Care last week, I’m waiting for a response to my follow up. What I do next depends on that. Want to see if the apparent link between my extra delay and forum activity, as hinted at in the email, is disproved.

Wow! WTF. WT actual F.

If that turns out to be true, it’s pretty nuclear.

Everything that’s been said about LCC would be true. With knobs on.

 

[Lotustoronto]

Stuff about the i4 that I have never been allowed to publish. And a bunch of other stuff told to me in confidence.


I am - in political parlance - “considering my position”.

After the “not going to explain your delay” email from Customer Care last week, I’m waiting for a response to my follow up. What I do next depends on that. Want to see if the apparent link between my extra delay and forum activity, as hinted at in the email, is disproved.

Just taking a guess here @TomE ... Are you giving Lotus the chance to explain your delay, from a parts supply / reason that makes sense from a production standpoint. Oppose to them knocking you back a couple months as a "penalty" for your contributions to a Lotus enthusiast forum? Just making sure I understood that correctly...

 

[Leonard]

Just taking a guess here @TomE ... Are you giving Lotus the chance to explain your delay, from a parts supply / reason that makes sense from a production standpoint. Oppose to them knocking you back a couple months as a "penalty" for your contributions to a Lotus enthusiast forum? Just making sure I understood that correctly...

I think that sums it up and rightly so.
Respect should run two ways

 

[Lotustoronto]

I think that sums it up and rightly so.
Respect should run two ways

Oh I agree. Still shocking that this is even a possibility... I know we joked about it, but if that is the case @Leonard , @emiraspain , @VL3X and myself should probably have some concern as well. @Eagle7 I think is safe...

In all seriousness, I hope for Tome's sake they give him a proper explanation and vindicate the Forum and its members from future persecution from the Lotus Gestapo.

 

[Leonard]

Oh I agree. Still shocking that this is even a possibility... I know we joked about it, but if that is the case @Leonard , @emiraspain , @VL3X and myself should probably have some concern as well. @Eagle7 I think is safe...

In all seriousness, I hope for Tome's sake they give him a proper explanation and vindicate the Forum and its members from future persecution from the Lotus Gestapo.

I honestly think any negativity towards Lotus on here has been pretty mild considering.
I have heard some absolute horror stories about Lotus past and present, but I'm too classy to share them online

 

[VL3X]

Oh I agree. Still shocking that this is even a possibility... I know we joked about it, but if that is the case @Leonard , @emiraspain , @VL3X and myself should probably have some concern as well. @Eagle7 I think is safe...

In all seriousness, I hope for Tome's sake they give him a proper explanation and vindicate the Forum and its members from future persecution from the Lotus Gestapo.

I really doubt this is the case, but we'll see... There's gonna be hell raised if us enthusiasts are punished for some reason. All we've done is generate hype and provide news while waiting.. for free. Not to mention the thousands of hours spent obsessing over this vehicle and thousands of dollars handed over in deposit money in exchange for poor comms and delays.

I'm remaining optimistic. My Emira shall be epic and arrive by April (only 1 year later than originally planned).

 

[emiraspain]

Oh I agree. Still shocking that this is even a possibility... I know we joked about it, but if that is the case @Leonard , @emiraspain , @VL3X and myself should probably have some concern as well. @Eagle7 I think is safe...

In all seriousness, I hope for Tome's sake they give him a proper explanation and vindicate the Forum and its members from future persecution from the Lotus Gestapo.

ahha.... you could be write/right.....correct there, but I dont think Leonard is too worried about timings, more about test drive feelings and final decisions. TO be honest his decision process has been the most stressful period of my life, and not just stressful, but irratic, ilogical and damn right ......... ok I dont want to go too far >

For me at this stage, as TomE seems to have confirmed my suspicions that dealer cars are in fact a full month delayed, officially, then it would make sense an Oct build is now heading to November and delivery at best the end of 2022....hence, I personally could handle another 2 3 4 5 month delay. Financially and anti-climatically, I would actually be fine with now getting my car in the Spring. I wont be and cant afford to just run out and get a supercar to fill in the time gap, but I can enjoy my 911 and play around with the Caterham configurator and consider a UK registered LHD car, which could have a terrible residual for me. I can invest my Lotus money in a Colombian CDT at 10% for the next 3 4 months and that will help pay for the first few fill ups at the gas station.

 

[emiraspain]

I honestly think any negativity towards Lotus on here has been pretty mild considering.
I have heard some absolute horror stories about Lotus past and present, but I'm too classy to share them online

"too classy".........
thats made my night...... I will dine out on that one for months to come.. haha

 

[Leonard]

"too classy".........
thats made my night...... I will dine out on that one for months to come.. haha

Are you saying I'm not......

 

[Lotustoronto]

I really doubt this is the case, but we'll see... There's gonna be hell raised if us enthusiasts are punished for some reason. All we've done is generate hype and provide news while waiting.. for free. Not to mention the thousands of hours spent obsessing over this vehicle and thousands of dollars handed over in deposit money in exchange for poor comms and delays.

I'm remaining optimistic. My Emira shall be epic and arrive by April (only 1 year later than originally planned).

I remain optimistic that Tom will get to the bottom of it, and hopefully he gets the answers he is looking for. I agree with Emiraspain that there was always going to be further delays.. Maybe they were more honest with TomE than the rest of the early depositors, and gave him the correct delivery timing knowing that it would be further delayed...

 

[emiraspain]

Are you saying I'm not......

i wouldn't dare....
i dont want a spyder running me off the road next year

 

[TomE]

Just taking a guess here @TomE ... Are you giving Lotus the chance to explain your delay, from a parts supply / reason that makes sense from a production standpoint. Oppose to them knocking you back a couple months as a "penalty" for your contributions to a Lotus enthusiast forum? Just making sure I understood that correctly...

Correct, I am giving Lotus the opportunity to explain what aspects of my spec are causing my car to be delayed more than cars that are now being delivered before mine, to people who placed deposits months later than me.

We all know what the potential differences in spec are and you can infer a lot from people posting online about what's getting built in Sept and which cars are only delayed one month rather than my two months. I don't have an auto gearbox (one source of longer delays). I do have tracker and Homelink, which for the first 24 hours looked like a factor until a few people with Sept build popped up to say they had tracker or Homelink or both. Paint colour, interior trim, suspension, wheel choice, caliper colour, privacy glass and full black pack are not factors.

The other concerning point is their email was clearly specific to me and not the generic responses they are sending to all the dozens of people asking "when's my car arriving". Plus they made reference to forum activity, which I had not mentioned in my questions.

Up until recently, Customer Care have been incredibly helpful to me. Often they don't have the necessary info, but many times they have gone off to other teams at Hethel to find answers. At Goodwood they (and others) went off to find the right experts to answer my questions. They knew several of my questions originated from here (why would I ask about auto gearboxes, for example, as I haven't ordered one) and that the answers would be published. I checked (as I always do) to make sure nothing was sensitive and it could be published. I was asked not to publish about the KEF power increase.

Now they seem to be implying there's a problem with me asking about things and publishing the answers. That appears to be why they have refused to answer my questions. Or possibly because there isn't a fact-based explanation and they are avoiding that issue.

As well as the "useful info" I post on here, I've been vocal about shortcomings in how Lotus have tackled various things such as comms, customer care and the rollout of the UK direct model. I hope I have been rational and fact-based about those. I'm not the only person to have made these points. I know some people at Lotus have considered my comments unwelcome or unfair, including some senior people. I know some people at Lotus have tried to dismiss or downplay my comments by suggesting I'm part of the "old guard", not part of the future Lotus demographic, a troublemaker, trying to make a name for myself in the owners community. Perhaps that helps them divert attention from where the real issues are.

It would be very disheartening to find they have deliberately delayed my car. I really hope that isn't the case. I have been to Hethel several times and also met senior Lotus people at events like Goodwood, and have called, messaged and exchanged emails with them. They have multiple ways of contacting me if they wanted to engage, and off the record dialogue has happened before. They just need to explain what is going on with my build sequence. At the moment it looks like someone told LCC to stonewall me and that there might be reasons beyond parts supply issues causing some of the delay.

 

[kitkat]

Correct, I am giving Lotus the opportunity to explain what aspects of my spec are causing my car to be delayed more than cars that are now being delivered before mine, to people who placed deposits months later than me.

We all know what the potential differences in spec are and you can infer a lot from people posting online about what's getting built in Sept and which cars are only delayed one month rather than my two months. I don't have an auto gearbox (one source of longer delays). I do have tracker and Homelink, which for the first 24 hours looked like a factor until a few people with Sept build popped up to say they had tracker or Homelink or both. Paint colour, interior trim, suspension, wheel choice, caliper colour, privacy glass and full black pack are not factors.

The other concerning point is their email was clearly specific to me and not the generic responses they are sending to all the dozens of people asking "when's my car arriving". Plus they made reference to forum activity, which I had not mentioned in my questions.

Up until recently, Customer Care have been incredibly helpful to me. Often they don't have the necessary info, but many times they have gone off to other teams at Hethel to find answers. At Goodwood they (and others) went off to find the right experts to answer my questions. They knew several of my questions originated from here (why would I ask about auto gearboxes, for example, as I haven't ordered one) and that the answers would be published. I checked (as I always do) to make sure nothing was sensitive and it could be published. I was asked not to publish about the KEF power increase.

Now they seem to be implying there's a problem with me asking about things and publishing the answers. That appears to be why they have refused to answer my questions. Or possibly because there isn't a fact-based explanation and they are avoiding that issue.

As well as the "useful info" I post on here, I've been vocal about shortcomings in how Lotus have tackled various things such as comms, customer care and the rollout of the UK direct model. I hope I have been rational and fact-based about those. I'm not the only person to have made these points. I know some people at Lotus have considered my comments unwelcome or unfair, including some senior people. I know some people at Lotus have tried to dismiss or downplay my comments by suggesting I'm part of the "old guard", not part of the future Lotus demographic, a troublemaker, trying to make a name for myself in the owners community. Perhaps that helps them divert attention from where the real issues are.

It would be very disheartening to find they have deliberately delayed my car. I really hope that isn't the case. I have been to Hethel several times and also met senior Lotus people at events like Goodwood, and have called, messaged and exchanged emails with them. They have multiple ways of contacting me if they wanted to engage, and off the record dialogue has happened before. They just need to explain what is going on with my build sequence. At the moment it looks like someone told LCC to stonewall me and that there might be reasons beyond parts supply issues causing some of the delay.

What the hell.

I’m glad I’ve remained anonymous in my critique.

 

[Eagle7]

It's one thing to point out objectively, that there's a problem, or an area that needs improvement. People will take that feedback seriously without resenting you. However, when you keep saying it repeatedly, then cross the line of being objective and start mocking, belittling and showing contempt for them... that's when you find out what happens when you've successively offended those between you and management.

Management will not tell anyone to deliberately delay Tom's car. No one will ask management if they can do that. That's not how resentment works. What will happen is a few, maybe more come online to the forum and read what's being said, then they go back and tell their fellow workers "You ought to see what this guy on the forum is saying about us.". They take a look, then starting talking about it. Word spreads among the rank and file. Management is not involved, nor do they know the reputation you've developed, but the rank and file now know who you are, and they'll start referring to you the way you've referred to them. That's human nature.

Burning good will is never a good idea, especially when you want those same people to treat you as though you've not offended them in any way. People are people. Doesn't matter whether they work for a company or not; people react to being insulted, and the constant mocking, disparaging and belittling that's gone on in here may be entertainment and funny to those doing it, but to those on the receiving end it hurts and it's discouraging. They'll remember you. People may not remember the good things you've said and done, but they'll never forget the bad things. That's the way it works.

I've requested before in here, more than once that we keep things civil and decent, and I got mocked for being a fan boi, 'you don't get to say what people in here can say', how dare you lecture us, etc. I knew some of you may be setting yourselves up for not getting any favors inside Lotus, but you were enjoying throwing rocks and laughing at the workers in the pits, and just chucked a few in my direction when I mentioned it because you were right! You were justified! There's such a thing as winning a battle but losing the war. Discretion is often the better part of valor, so it pays to look ahead and beyond the moment before you say or do something.

The school of hard knocks is a tough school. You can either learn valuable lessons by learning from those who've been through it already, or you can enroll and learn the hard way yourself. Never insult the people cooking or serving your food before they bring it to you in other words, unless you want to find out what happens if you do.

I truly hope there's nothing serious going on, as it would diminish the overall experience and ambience of being part of this special occasion of the last ICE Lotus, and the first of a new era.

If any Lotus employees are reading this, rise above it. Uphold the reputation, name and legend of Lotus for your sake, and the sake of the many thousands of new customers that you'll be interacting with through what you do, and how you do it. You'll feel better about yourselves if you rise above it, than if you do something vindictive. This too shall pass. Life is a stream of moments, then they're gone. Make the best of the moments you have while you can.

The Emira is a beautiful car; more like a work of art, and the amount of time, effort and hard work you guys and gals have put into making it be the best Lotus ever, shows. It's gorgeous and everybody knows it. Keep calm, carry on, and know that thousands of people are looking forward to receiving these works of art you are making for us.

 

[Leonard]

Management will not tell anyone to deliberately delay Tom's car. No one will ask management if they can do that. That's not how resentment works. What will happen is a few, maybe more come online to the forum and read what's being said, then they go back and tell their fellow workers "You ought to see what this guy on the forum is saying about us.". They take a look, then starting talking about it. Word spreads among the rank and file. Management is not involved, nor do they know the reputation you've developed, but the rank and file now know who you are, and they'll start referring to you the way you've referred to them. That's human nature.

IF there is a deliberate delay at play here then I would be amazed if you didn't have the above thinking completely backwards.

 

[Leonard]

It's one thing to point out objectively, that there's a problem, or an area that needs improvement. People will take that feedback seriously without resenting you. However, when you keep saying it repeatedly, then cross the line of being objective and start mocking, belittling and showing contempt for them... that's when you find out what happens when you've successively offended those between you and management.

Management will not tell anyone to deliberately delay Tom's car. No one will ask management if they can do that. That's not how resentment works. What will happen is a few, maybe more come online to the forum and read what's being said, then they go back and tell their fellow workers "You ought to see what this guy on the forum is saying about us.". They take a look, then starting talking about it. Word spreads among the rank and file. Management is not involved, nor do they know the reputation you've developed, but the rank and file now know who you are, and they'll start referring to you the way you've referred to them. That's human nature.

Burning good will is never a good idea, especially when you want those same people to treat you as though you've not offended them in any way. People are people. Doesn't matter whether they work for a company or not; people react to being insulted, and the constant mocking, disparaging and belittling that's gone on in here may be entertainment and funny to those doing it, but to those on the receiving end it hurts and it's discouraging. They'll remember you. People may not remember the good things you've said and done, but they'll never forget the bad things. That's the way it works.

I've requested before in here, more than once that we keep things civil and decent, and I got mocked for being a fan boi, 'you don't get to say what people in here can say', how dare you lecture us, etc. I knew some of you may be setting yourselves up for not getting any favors inside Lotus, but you were enjoying throwing rocks and laughing at the workers in the pits, and just chucked a few in my direction when I mentioned it because you were right! You were justified! There's such a thing as winning a battle but losing the war. Discretion is often the better part of valor, so it pays to look ahead and beyond the moment before you say or do something.

The school of hard knocks is a tough school. You can either learn valuable lessons by learning from those who've been through it already, or you can enroll and learn the hard way yourself. Never insult the people cooking or serving your food before they bring it to you in other words, unless you want to find out what happens if you do.

I truly hope there's nothing serious going on, as it would diminish the overall experience and ambience of being part of this special occasion of the last ICE Lotus, and the first of a new era.

If any Lotus employees are reading this, rise above it. Uphold the reputation, name and legend of Lotus for your sake, and the sake of the many thousands of new customers that you'll be interacting with through what you do, and how you do it. You'll feel better about yourselves if you rise above it, than if you do something vindictive. This too shall pass. Life is a stream of moments, then they're gone. Make the best of the moments you have while you can.

The Emira is a beautiful car; more like a work of art, and the amount of time, effort and hard work you guys and gals have put into making it be the best Lotus ever, shows. It's gorgeous and everybody knows it. Keep calm, carry on, and know that thousands of people are looking forward to receiving these works of art you are making for us.

I have no ill will towards Lotus and I'm sure nobody else does on here.
We are all car enthusiasts and Lotus enthusiasts, or we wouldn't be here.
If you hold Lotus on such a high pedestal that you are simply willing to overlook any failings to receive the car of your dreams then great.
That isn't an experience most consumers are willing to accept however. And for a brand to market themselves as "For the Drivers" only to completely ignore or even belittle that demographic is shocking.
Moving your whole business model from B2B to D2C and not putting in place any of the basic building blocks necessary to make that transition successfull is commercially damaging. Whether Lotus want to accept that or not.
I genuinely hope the Emira and your future Lotus ownership experience meets your lofty expectation.

 

[DJS]

Are you saying I'm not......

I mean look at that hair and them them shades your not only classy your super cool too, all you need now is an Emira and you have cracked it

 

[Leonard]

I mean look at that hair and them them shades your not only classy your super cool too, all you need now is an Emira and you have cracked it

 

[Tonyshepp]

Sounds like Tom will be offered a re-education course by Lotus deivered by senior teacher Eagle