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Emira should have started with 450hp.
- Thread starter Maverick1
- Start date
FlyNavy01
Emira Fanatic
I want more power and would happily pay more for it. I think $110k-$125k for a 450-480hp Emira would be fantastic. A nimble 6-7lb/hp (3kg/hp) ratio is sublime for a driver's car. The Emira at 8lb/hp is right at the lower limit of what I would consider a quick "sports car" which is a bit of a bummer, but a compromise I'm obviously willing to make for the other analog-style benefits the car brings.
Sure 400hp is enjoyable, 450hp would be moreso. In every scenario. People saying otherwise are in denial IMO.
Sure 400hp is enjoyable, 450hp would be moreso. In every scenario. People saying otherwise are in denial IMO.
400 hp and save the money all day long. I’d take a 360hp V6 if it was the same cost as an i4.
Driving a 155ps Ford Puma on B roads today and even with that level of power hitting 80mph is a matter of seconds (theoretically, not that I would do that officer
). Not that fast on a dual carriageway but they don’t have interesting corners so I don’t care. Doesn’t look as good as an Emira though.I suspect the desire for more power depends upon the roads(or tracks) you drive and your driving style.
SpyderBite
Member
By choosing 450hp in the topic of the thread, it meant it was always a fantasy exercise. We haven't seen that output in a production version of either of the 2 engines in question. Aftermarket gains (unhindered by certain emissions restrictions or by long-term reliability testing) have never been something we can hold a manufacturer to for what it "should be" putting out in its production cars.
The argument gets confused and the nuance emerges when the debate adjusts to more reasonable outputs, including ones that already exist in past production versions of the 2 engines. Now we're considering options that were proven possible, but that were nixed by a conscious choice from Lotus. And really then, the most impactful example is the I4 at 360hp (and the reduced torque that goes with it), which is far short of the 400hp that keeps getting debated.
For those who want the I4, I don't think it's that much of a pill to swallow that the Emira I4 doesn't start with something like the A45S's 416hp. But it seems fair to be pretty disappointed that Lotus actually detuned down to 360hp so as not to upstage the V6. (Agreed that there's been plenty of time for I4 folks to accept this & move on. But this recent topic re-engaged people none-the-less).
And yes, it really was a conscious choice to detune. Paraphrasing how it was characterized to me by Lotus, if the I4 was allowed to make similar hp as the V6, there would be no contest in performance (in favor of the I4 setup). The V6 model is what Lotus decided to position as the "Premium" model though, and as such its performance has to be protected. It needs no protection of course when it comes to sound, throttle characteristics, or having the option for a manual.
If you asked various Lotus personnel last year about the I4, the first word that came up every time by the way was "Emissions." I don't know if it was a surprise to them however when emissions results more recently came back and were higher than what Mercedes put up for their cars with the M139... And does it catch Mercedes in a bit of a cheat?
Some can get so focused on the engine output that they lose track of a notable part of the I4 model's *performance* strength -- the transmission. (This is not a commentary on the driving experience of a DCT vs manual). Besides the faster shifting, it's more optimally geared with 8 speeds. Lotus found the gearing for the Merc 8 speed DCT to be spot-on for the Emira by the way, they felt no need to make any changes there. There was talk many months ago of changing the diff's final drive ratio however, to something a little longer.
One other set of comments I'll pass along, from 2 of the folks I spoke to at Lotus who had driven both Emira's on the track. Both described the I4 spec, even with the 360hp that sounds so low, as surprisingly potent & a lot of fun. One of the two volunteered that the torque was particularly noticeable and that they actually preferred the way the acceleration surge came on as far as excitement. While I can't imagine wanting to do so personally
, both were also impressed by how well the DCT worked in auto mode at the track. I imagine for a beginner tracking the car (we all were at some point), it's actually a viable option to throw a DCT car into its best auto-shifting program and take the shifting variable out of the equation when first learning about driving the car on a track.
Personally, I would love to see Lotus offer an ecu programming upgrade down the road for I4 owners. As a cost option - which seems realistic. I'm not a Tesla guy but I think they've already set a precedent on that? In any case, that's one of the reasons I'm very much focused on seeing what happens with the Emira being launched in China. It's been nearly 6 months now since the Chinese reveal, and the Lotus China website still lists 400hp for the spec. I can't entirely discount that Lotus never got around to fixing the website, but I hope the 400hp is for real, then they will officially have a 400hp production tune on the same hardware that the rest of world is getting on their I4's.
[/ramble off]
The argument gets confused and the nuance emerges when the debate adjusts to more reasonable outputs, including ones that already exist in past production versions of the 2 engines. Now we're considering options that were proven possible, but that were nixed by a conscious choice from Lotus. And really then, the most impactful example is the I4 at 360hp (and the reduced torque that goes with it), which is far short of the 400hp that keeps getting debated.
For those who want the I4, I don't think it's that much of a pill to swallow that the Emira I4 doesn't start with something like the A45S's 416hp. But it seems fair to be pretty disappointed that Lotus actually detuned down to 360hp so as not to upstage the V6. (Agreed that there's been plenty of time for I4 folks to accept this & move on. But this recent topic re-engaged people none-the-less).
And yes, it really was a conscious choice to detune. Paraphrasing how it was characterized to me by Lotus, if the I4 was allowed to make similar hp as the V6, there would be no contest in performance (in favor of the I4 setup). The V6 model is what Lotus decided to position as the "Premium" model though, and as such its performance has to be protected. It needs no protection of course when it comes to sound, throttle characteristics, or having the option for a manual.
If you asked various Lotus personnel last year about the I4, the first word that came up every time by the way was "Emissions." I don't know if it was a surprise to them however when emissions results more recently came back and were higher than what Mercedes put up for their cars with the M139... And does it catch Mercedes in a bit of a cheat?
Some can get so focused on the engine output that they lose track of a notable part of the I4 model's *performance* strength -- the transmission. (This is not a commentary on the driving experience of a DCT vs manual). Besides the faster shifting, it's more optimally geared with 8 speeds. Lotus found the gearing for the Merc 8 speed DCT to be spot-on for the Emira by the way, they felt no need to make any changes there. There was talk many months ago of changing the diff's final drive ratio however, to something a little longer.
One other set of comments I'll pass along, from 2 of the folks I spoke to at Lotus who had driven both Emira's on the track. Both described the I4 spec, even with the 360hp that sounds so low, as surprisingly potent & a lot of fun. One of the two volunteered that the torque was particularly noticeable and that they actually preferred the way the acceleration surge came on as far as excitement. While I can't imagine wanting to do so personally
, both were also impressed by how well the DCT worked in auto mode at the track. I imagine for a beginner tracking the car (we all were at some point), it's actually a viable option to throw a DCT car into its best auto-shifting program and take the shifting variable out of the equation when first learning about driving the car on a track.Personally, I would love to see Lotus offer an ecu programming upgrade down the road for I4 owners. As a cost option - which seems realistic. I'm not a Tesla guy but I think they've already set a precedent on that? In any case, that's one of the reasons I'm very much focused on seeing what happens with the Emira being launched in China. It's been nearly 6 months now since the Chinese reveal, and the Lotus China website still lists 400hp for the spec. I can't entirely discount that Lotus never got around to fixing the website, but I hope the 400hp is for real, then they will officially have a 400hp production tune on the same hardware that the rest of world is getting on their I4's.
[/ramble off]
Leonard
Emira Aficionado
From a marketing position its obvious why Lotus has positioned a base and a premium option.
In deference to this thread, it would have been interesting to have the i4 and V6 priced the same, with a 430bhp V6 manual only and a 400bhp i4 DCT. Performance would probably be the same and everyone would be 'happy'
Be interesting to see what the split would be on uptake of both
In deference to this thread, it would have been interesting to have the i4 and V6 priced the same, with a 430bhp V6 manual only and a 400bhp i4 DCT. Performance would probably be the same and everyone would be 'happy'
Be interesting to see what the split would be on uptake of both
mjw930
Emira Fanatic
Kind of like the X50 pack Porsche used to have for the turbos before they decided to just make a turbo S. Slip us another $10k later on and we’ll release the Kraken.By choosing 450hp in the topic of the thread, it meant it was always a fantasy exercise. We haven't seen that output in a production version of either of the 2 engines in question. Aftermarket gains (unhindered by certain emissions restrictions or by long-term reliability testing) have never been something we can hold a manufacturer to for what it "should be" putting out in its production cars.
The argument gets confused and the nuance emerges when the debate adjusts to more reasonable outputs, including ones that already exist in past production versions of the 2 engines. Now we're considering options that were proven possible, but that were nixed by a conscious choice from Lotus. And really then, the most impactful example is the I4 at 360hp (and the reduced torque that goes with it), which is far short of the 400hp that keeps getting debated.
For those who want the I4, I don't think it's that much of a pill to swallow that the Emira I4 doesn't start with something like the A45S's 416hp. But it seems fair to be pretty disappointed that Lotus actually detuned down to 360hp so as not to upstage the V6. (Agreed that there's been plenty of time for I4 folks to accept this & move on. But this recent topic re-engaged people none-the-less).
And yes, it really was a conscious choice to detune. Paraphrasing how it was characterized to me by Lotus, if the I4 was allowed to make similar hp as the V6, there would be no contest in performance (in favor of the I4 setup). The V6 model is what Lotus decided to position as the "Premium" model though, and as such its performance has to be protected. It needs no protection of course when it comes to sound, throttle characteristics, or having the option for a manual.
If you asked various Lotus personnel last year about the I4, the first word that came up every time by the way was "Emissions." I don't know if it was a surprise to them however when emissions results more recently came back and were higher than what Mercedes put up for their cars with the M139... And does it catch Mercedes in a bit of a cheat?
Some can get so focused on the engine output that they lose track of a notable part of the I4 model's *performance* strength -- the transmission. (This is not a commentary on the driving experience of a DCT vs manual). Besides the faster shifting, it's more optimally geared with 8 speeds. Lotus found the gearing for the Merc 8 speed DCT to be spot-on for the Emira by the way, they felt no need to make any changes there. There was talk many months ago of changing the diff's final drive ratio however, to something a little longer.
One other set of comments I'll pass along, from 2 of the folks I spoke to at Lotus who had driven both Emira's on the track. Both described the I4 spec, even with the 360hp that sounds so low, as surprisingly potent & a lot of fun. One of the two volunteered that the torque was particularly noticeable and that they actually preferred the way the acceleration surge came on as far as excitement. While I can't imagine wanting to do so personally
Personally, I would love to see Lotus offer an ecu programming upgrade down the road for I4 owners. As a cost option - which seems realistic. I'm not a Tesla guy but I think they've already set a precedent on that? In any case, that's one of the reasons I'm very much focused on seeing what happens with the Emira being launched in China. It's been nearly 6 months now since the Chinese reveal, and the Lotus China website still lists 400hp for the spec. I can't entirely discount that Lotus never got around to fixing the website, but I hope the 400hp is for real, then they will officially have a 400hp production tune on the same hardware that the rest of world is getting on their I4's.
[/ramble off]
Has this group forgotten that the (lighter) Emira GT4 race car uses the Toyota V6 with 6 speed manual, with 400 not a higher HP output (despite everyone arguing more is readily available)?
If more is accessible then why isn't it deployed?
Maybe there is something to the Emira aero, configuration and handling that already qualifies it as a track beast.
LotusB
Emira Fan
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That's incorrect... it'll make a lot more power than 400hp and it has a (race spec) sequential transmission to handle the power and obviously shift faster.
I was on the list to get one and my info came from Hethel. Unfortunately my dealer and I were hoping it would be more like a Porsche GT4, but instead it was a pure race car that's not street legal... so that sort of killed the deal for me.
Cachaco131
Emira Maniac
Let's pile on. My f80 has 445hp/406lb-ft and weighs about 190kg more than the Emira. My E46 M3 has 333hp / 268lb-ft and weighs 70kg more than the Emira.
I find the F80 a bit too powerful and heavy. Torque is insane. I find the E46 almost perfect but a bit underpowered and you need to grab it by the neck and keep it in the 5-8k RPM range. Since the Emira will be lighter than the e46, power and torque almost half way through E46/F80 - the Emira is perfect!
That's it, end of thread. If you want 450hp+ and 600lb ft go drive a tuned F80 with 190kg of weight savings. Make sure you have paid your healthcare insurance!
I find the F80 a bit too powerful and heavy. Torque is insane. I find the E46 almost perfect but a bit underpowered and you need to grab it by the neck and keep it in the 5-8k RPM range. Since the Emira will be lighter than the e46, power and torque almost half way through E46/F80 - the Emira is perfect!
That's it, end of thread. If you want 450hp+ and 600lb ft go drive a tuned F80 with 190kg of weight savings. Make sure you have paid your healthcare insurance!
The info came from the Lotus press announcement. It's on the Media site.
In context of GT4 racing, there are power limits to make racing fair. In the GT4 series that is around 400HP.
That's why the Emira GT4 racecar with sequential box is capped at 400HP. Its surely capable of much more given the sequential box torque limit, but the racing rules do not allow it.
That means that the engine isn't very stressed for longevity which is also good for racing.
That's why the Emira GT4 racecar with sequential box is capped at 400HP. Its surely capable of much more given the sequential box torque limit, but the racing rules do not allow it.
That means that the engine isn't very stressed for longevity which is also good for racing.
LotusB
Emira Fan
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The information I'm sharing is public now, it wasn't when I received it. They also shared a little more information that's not in the press release, but that doesn't matter. Either way, you said the GT4 car uses the manual transmission, so I'm correcting you and with the size/efficiency of the TVS1900 the engine is capable of a lot more power. The entire platform will be much more efficient and the final hp number will be set in the future.
Hey, speaking of public info... check this out. Both interesting from a SC perspective and related to this thread as far as power. I have no idea why they're setting lap records with that 550hp Exige...don't they know that 400hp in a larger and heavier platform is enough?
darkling
Emira Fan
so the talk about the i4 just keeps trying to put it up on the v6 . I actually bought a 15 gla45 amg to try it out . I am not really impressed with the engine . ok yeah it does the job ok the gla is heavier then the emira by a few hundred pounds and it's awd but i'm really not feeling it. i'll stick with the stick
If the Emira came out with 450hp this thread would have been 'should have stated with 500hp' if you want straight line speed like many have already pointed out ... Buy electric.. buy a different car.
If I want a super car I'll buy one... Once I've remortgaged the house!
If I want a super car I'll buy one... Once I've remortgaged the house!
Harrop are 20mins down the road from me. Pretty cool.
Might take my Emira there to see what they can do!
A mild uplift of power 430 or a bigger uplift 475 available for Evora 400, using same engine as Emira. If you really feel the need for more horsepower and torque
.
www.komo-tec.com
www.komo-tec.com
.
Phase Sport EV4-435 Mehrleistung ca. +30PS/+40Nm für Evora 400
Phase Sport EV4-435 Mehrleistung ca. +30PS/+40Nm für Evora 400
www.komo-tec.com
Phase EV4-475 Mehrleistung ca. +70PS/+90Nm
Phase EV4-475 Mehrleistung ca. +70PS/+90Nm
www.komo-tec.com
kratedisease
Emira Fanatic
450HP would have been fine. Just a bit more than the car it replaces, the Evora.
A natural progression of "improvement" in power, just as every other manufacturer does with new platforms. (except Lotus)
NicolasB
Emira Maniac
Won't all of that power destroy the gearbox? Over 500hp at the wheels?!
That’s interesting. From what we’re reading Lotus is inclined to go the i4 route for more performance. A supercharged 500hp V6 would make one heck of a halo product but I suspect the economics would be tricky. As it stands they can’t make the car quickly enough so no real commercial impetus.
FlyNavy01
Emira Fanatic
The discussion of the current manual gearbox already being at it's limit in the Evora GT with 416hp keeps coming up, but where is the source of that information? Komo-tec clearly offers +70hp/+66lbft upgrades on the Evora without any modifications to the transmission.
I'm beginning to think it was a myth promulgated to convince people that more power isn't feasible in the Evora/Emira 6spd platform.
I'm beginning to think it was a myth promulgated to convince people that more power isn't feasible in the Evora/Emira 6spd platform.
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