I'm out - the cancellations thread

[Concept24]

. These sort of issues happen to any early new model, difference being larger manufacturers deal with the clients in a more polished manner. (Parts availability, courtesy car etc.)

.....not so with Lexus/Toyota or perhaps Mazda. Our 18 year old Lexus RX400h, a fairly complicated vehicle, has been rock-steady reliable all these years. We should stop assuming that poor quality is inevitable. It is not. I have designed many products that have been improved over time, but almost never were they causing customers headaches from their introduction.
I understand that many assemblies and components are designed by outside companies, but that doesn't mean that the company that sells products that contain those subassemblies and components cannot demand thorough testing to their own standards.
I agree with Magma. Lexus is a benchmark that all should emulate. It's too bad they don't make a mid engine, light sportscar.

 

[Lotustoronto]

First, I own a Lexus LX600... So believe me I am a huge fan of how Toyota operates. But let's be honest, they are not the most exciting or innovative products. They are tried, tested and honed with an obsession of quality and longevity. Marginally changing the models year over year. Which in a daily driver I very much appreciate.

Lotus is on the complete opposite end of the spectrum. Colin Chapman was extremely innovative and looked at any way to shed weight and pioneered many suspensions and other automotive firsts all in the name of performance. Companies like Toyota, need Lotus to pioneer, try different things, fail at some and make magic in others. Now this is not the Lotus of old and the Emira is basically an updated Evora so you would think there is less issues to be had. However, when you couple a new factory, new employees and changing your vehicle output from 2K cars a year to 5K per annum, this was bound to happen. I wish it was not this way, but when Toyota lanuches a new car / product they are usually built in factories that have been operating for decades with the same staff and that Japanese work ethic (sorry for the Englishmen, but the Japanese have QC covered). A Toyota is a mass produced, very well made, long lasting automobile. This is not Lotus.

What Lotus do better than Toyota is place importance on how the car feels, the performance and how it evokes emotion. No Toyota product can replicate what the Emira does. (exception the LFA.... Anyone got 600K for one?) The Emira has a soul, it is special with a sense of occasion that the designers at Toyota do not grasp. We buy these cars for how it makes us feel, how it handles, it is automotive art if you will. As our good friend @emiraspain would say, the Emira is the romantics choice. Not a car you choose with your head.

 

[Cachaco131]

.....not so with Lexus/Toyota or perhaps Mazda. Our 18 year old Lexus RX400h, a fairly complicated vehicle, has been rock-steady reliable all these years. We should stop assuming that poor quality is inevitable. It is not. I have designed many products that have been improved over time, but almost never were they causing customers headaches from their introduction.
I understand that many assemblies and components are designed by outside companies, but that doesn't mean that the company that sells products that contain those subassemblies and components cannot demand thorough testing to their own standards.
I agree with Magma. Lexus is a benchmark that all should emulate. It's too bad they don't make a mid engine, light sportscar.

But let's face it, Lexus is kind of boring Mom/Dad car.

 

[digilotus]

Well said, which is why I found the tried and true Toyota drivetrain in the Emira so appealing. It’s almost the best of both worlds.

 

[Concept24]

But let's face it, Lexus is kind of boring Mom/Dad car.

Have you driven the LC500? I rented one for a day. It is definitely not boring unless you want it to be.

 

[Lotustoronto]

Only thing I will add... Toyota did try to do what Lotus, Porsche, Ferrari etc. do. They made the LFA. But since they are quality obssesed and over engineer everything (not a bad thing) the project cost 1 billion to develop and every one was sold at a loss. Still a pretty damn special car tho.

 

[Concept24]

Well said, which is why I found the tried and true Toyota drivetrain in the Emira so appealing. It’s almost the best of both worlds.

Same here, but it's the electronics that worries me.

 

[Lotustoronto]

Have you driven the LC500? I rented one for a day. It is definitely not boring unless you want it to be.

I have, its amazingly built.... but ya, its still boring next to an Emira. IMO. But I completely see the appeal to why someone would want one.

 

[Concept24]

I have, its amazingly built.... but ya, its still boring next to an Emira. IMO. But I completely see the appeal to why someone would want one.

Then again, if you also had an Ariel Atom or BAC Mono, the Emira would probably seem a bit boring.

 

[Cachaco131]

Have you driven the LC500? I rented one for a day. It is definitely not boring unless you want it to be.

I have not. I'm talking looks, brand and what Lexus means to me. But it may well be a fine performance car.

 

[NicolasB]

I am planning a test drive this summer in an Atom 4, just trying to find time to ensure NY state will allow it to be registered without too much fuss since it basically is considered a kit car, and then be able to insure it.

 

[Magma]

Have you driven the LC500? I rented one for a day. It is definitely not boring unless you want it to be.

I test drove an LC 500 as well, little over a year ago. Many people misunderstand the actual point of the LC. It's not a sports car, it's a GT car. And it's brilliant for that.
I can't tell you how many reviews I've seen where they claim this to the best car they've ever driven. Period. Even Mark @savagegeese leased one for himself and he is very hard to impress. No it's not perfect, but that's why many speak of it's "character" and "soul." Almost Jekyll and Hyde.

I'll agree. The Emira type car is dying. You've got the Supra or the G86, MX-5, Cayman in a more reasonable price range. But I feel you need to be under the age of 40 for the first two.
The Emira's production is just beginning. I really feel that anyone who wants one, will eventually be able to get one (in the US and UK at least). Look how many are available in the UK on the second hand market.

If the Emira checks all the boxes of your dream car and you're fine with how Lotus operates and the high probability of needing repairs on some thing or another, then Lotus is for you. For me...it checks many boxes. But it also leaves some with question marks. And to be honest...it was the Emira's looks paired it's low introductory price that even got me on the bandwagon to begin with. HOW CAN A CAR THAT LOOKS LIKE THIS COST THAT? AND IT'S SUPPOSED TO DRIVE LIKE NOTHING I'VE EXPERIENCED TOO??? Well, you know what they say, "if it seems to good to be true..."
As the wait got longer, the pricing went up and the owner issues started, more question marks started filling my Emira dream car boxes than check marks.

 

[Green]

Negative zero interest in the Lexus LC 500. Maybe if I was 70 to 80 years old. It represents everything I do not want in a car. People carry on and on about the Emira problems. It is nothing
new for a new model and not exclusive to Lotus. I just read how the Maserati MC 20 had a major recall because they could catch on fire from leaking gas. Corvette has its own problems and so does McClaren. If you want to make it seem like it is just Lotus you are wrong.

 

[Concept24]

Negative zero interest in the Lexus LC 500. Maybe if I was 70 to 80 years old. It represents everything I do not want in a car. People carry on and on about the Emira problems. It is nothing
new for a new model and not exclusive to Lotus. I just read how the Maserati MC 20 had a major recall because they could catch on fire from leaking gas. Corvette has its own problems and so does McClaren. If you want to make it seem like it is just Lotus you are wrong.

You act like the LC500 is a big floating barge that tilts like a boat on the high sea. That is NOT the LC500 and LC500h at all.
Mark on Savage Geese has one and he and many other youtubers who love the car are far younger than 70. The LCs are not track cars; they are GT cars that are very, very comfortable - somewhat like a Jaguar F-Type but with better reliability and interior.

 

[Magma]

Negative zero interest in the Lexus LC 500. Maybe if I was 70 to 80 years old. It represents everything I do not want in a car. People carry on and on about the Emira problems. It is nothing
new for a new model and not exclusive to Lotus. I just read how the Maserati MC 20 had a major recall because they could catch on fire from leaking gas. Corvette has its own problems and so does McClaren. If you want to make it seem like it is just Lotus you are wrong.

Lol...none of these makers are known for their reliability (sans maybe GM who's squeaks by because parts are cheap and easily accessible if there are problems).
However...Of all of them, Lotus is the only one with a "kit car" reputation. Whether deserved or not. That's how many people view them.

 

[Green]

You act like the LC500 is a big floating barge that tilts like a boat on the high sea. That is NOT the LC500 and LC500h at all.
Mark on Savage Geese has one and he and many other youtubers who love the car are far younger than 70. The LCs are not track cars; they are GT cars that are very, very comfortable - somewhat like a Jaguar F-Type but with better reliability and interior.

Actually you described it perfectly. It floats and tilts like a barge at high seas. I was behind one in my GTR and it was so unsettled in the corners I thought it was going to rollover. I was laughing hysterically, it was that bad.

 

[Green]

Lol...none of these makers are known for their reliability (sans maybe GM who's squeaks by because parts are cheap and easily accessible if there are problems).
However...Of all of them, Lotus is the only one with a "kit car" reputation. Whether deserved or not. That's how many people view them.

Ok since you drive a 911 how about the 991.1 engine failures? I rebuilt my 911 engine 2 times at 20g a pop. I mean if you want reliable and dependable by all means buy a Honda or a Toyota.

 

[kitkat]

Negative zero interest in the Lexus LC 500. Maybe if I was 70 to 80 years old. It represents everything I do not want in a car. People carry on and on about the Emira problems. It is nothing
new for a new model and not exclusive to Lotus. I just read how the Maserati MC 20 had a major recall because they could catch on fire from leaking gas. Corvette has its own problems and so does McClaren. If you want to make it seem like it is just Lotus you are wrong.

I too think the LC500 is an old man’s car — but other cars having issues doesn’t absolve or make the Lotus problems any better — that's just whataboutism.

 

[Magma]

Ok since you drive a 911 how about the 991.1 engine failures? I rebuilt my 911 engine 2 times at 20g a pop. I mean if you want reliable and dependable by all means buy a Honda or a Toyota.

Beats me. Never experienced a blown engine. Seems odd to me you'd have it happen twice. You're probably in the .5% of people to have this happen (twice). I'm sure you didn't pay for those out of pocket either.

Most people consider the 991.1 Gen pretty bullet proof. The dot 2's have had some water pump issues and a couple other minor things if I remember, but luckily Porsche stands behind those repairs. Just like the GT3's and the extended warranties. Would Lotus do that? I'm genuinely asking. I have no idea.

But I like what 'cha did there

 

[Green]

Beats me. Never experienced a blown engine. Seems odd to me you'd have it happen twice. You're probably in the .5% of people to have this happen (twice). I'm sure you didn't pay for those out of pocket either.

Most people consider the 991.1 Gen pretty bullet proof. The dot 2's have had some water pump issues and a couple other minor things if I remember, but luckily Porsche stands behind those repairs. Just like the GT3's and the extended warranties. Would Lotus do that? I'm genuinely asking. I have no idea.

But I like what 'cha did there

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