More details for KEF Audio

[Tokion]

As many of you know; I have been active talking about the (to me) unsatisfactory car audio system in the Lotus Emira. Unfortunately my ordered (since summer 2021) i4 FE has still not arrived, so I can only base my impressions on listening in three different Emira demo cars, and also in a friend’s car (a V6 manual).

I am working professionally in the audio industry; but not with car audio. I have my minimum standards for what I am willing to accept, and contrary to what many would believe, I do not at all require any “high-end performance” in my car. I simply want things to sound reasonable and acceptable (to me). This means no need for a 10 inch subwoofer, and most likely no super-expensive tweeters added.

I have expressed on several occasions that I think the Fresh-Air (open) subwoofer is a problem, (it is important to understand that this woofer is not a KEF product) and I expect to disconnect this (and possibly remove it), and I plan to replace it with one or two powered (self-amped) compact, closed-box subwoofer(s) from the German Eaton brand. Personally I don’t care if some believe that subwoofers need to be 10 inch or larger. I will personally go for ideal integration and I don’t need the voluminous disco beat.

My ultimate goal is to work towards making the coaxial KEF drivers mounted in each door shine, and get them to play satisfactory without swapping them. The KEF Coaxial principle is that the tweeter and mid-woofer share a common center that creates a point-source. To add a super-tweeter will be a last resort decision if everything else fails.

I may also look for a superior power amplifier (not neccessarily a particularly high-powered one) that will integrate with the rest of the system. I will probably add some extra damping into the doors where the main speakers are mounted; but rather than heavy-weight mats, I plan to go for Mundorf Angle Hair (that may have to be placed into suitable bags to contain contaminants from getting into speakers.)

I also plan to look at the general electrical power supply for the car stereo; and this will include a detailed analysis of the grounding of each area, and particularly in connection with the doors and the audio system. Where I live, there is a particular provider of “super-capacitors” for car audio power, and this is also going to be very important to improve the Emira Car Audio System’s power supply.

Of course there will be a lot of trial and error. But I repeat that my initial goal is to make those beautiful coaxial KEF-drivers sing. (I do not intend to throw them out and replace them with an alternative brand and type of driver.)

I am a life-long admirer of KEF. But unfortunately I do not feel that any other part of the Emira Car Audio System than these Coaxial KEF drivers actually come from KEF. Maybe someone here can tell me to what extent actually UK based KEF engineers were in charge of the system-design of the Emira Car Audio System?

All I can say is that unmodified, it does not sound to me like I would expect from KEF. So I will modify carefully trying to bring out the KEF’ness of that system.

This is just my take. I have no commercial intent or interest. I simply want to have a reasonably good sound in my car. I also intend to keep things lightweight and simple in true Lotus fashion.

Finally, I also intend to do everything within a relatively limited budget. Some investment will be needed, but nothing out-of-proportion.

 

[Shyatic]

As many of you know; I have been active talking about the (to me) unsatisfactory car audio system in the Lotus Emira. Unfortunately my ordered (since summer 2021) i4 FE has still not arrived, so I can only base my impressions on listening in three different Emira demo cars, and also in a friend’s car (a V6 Manual).

I am working professionally in the audio industry; but not with car audio. I have my minimum standards for what I am willing to accept, and contrary to what many would believe, I do not at all require any “high-end” performance in my car. I simply want things to sound reasonable and acceptable (to me). This means no need for a 10 inch subwoofer, and most likely no super-expensive tweeters added.

I have expressed in several occasions that I think the Fresh-Air (open) subwoofer is a problem, (it is important to understand that this woofer is not a KEF product) and I expect to disconnect this (and possibly remove it), and I plan to replace it with one or two powered (self-amped) compact, closed-box subwoofer(s) from the German Eaton brand. Personally I don’t care if some believe that subwoofers need to be 10 inch or larger. I will personally go for ideal integration and I don’t need the voluminous disco beat.

My ultimate goal is to work towards making the coaxial KEF drivers mounted in each door shine, and get them to play satisfactory without swapping them. In principle the KEF Coaxial principle is that the tweeter and mid-woofer shares a common center and that it will create a point-source. To add a super-tweeter will be a last resort decision if everything else fails.

I may also look for a superior power amplifier (not neccessarily a particularly high-powered one) that will integrate with the rest of the system. I will probably add some extra damping into the doors where the main speakers are mounted; but rather than heavy-weight mats, I plan to go for Mundorf Angle Hair (that may have to be placed into suitable bags to contain contaminants from getting into speakers.)

I also plan to look at the general electrical power supply for the car stereo; and this will include a detailed analysis of the grounding of each area, and particularly in connection with the doors and the audio system. Where I live, there is a particular provider of “super-capacitors” for car audio power, and this is also going to be very important to improve the Emira Car Audio Systems power supply.

Of course there will be a lot of trial and error. But I repeat that my initial goal is to make those beautiful coaxial KEF-drivers sing. (I do not intend to throw them out and replace them with an alternative brand and type of driver.)

I am a life-long admirer of KEF. But unfortunately I do not feel that any other part of the Emira Car Audio System than these Coaxial KEF drivers actually comes from KEF. Maybe someone here can tell me to what extent actually UK based KEF engineers were fully in charge of the system-design of the Emira Car Audio System?

All I can say is that unmodified, it does not sound to me like I would expect from KEF. So I will modify carefully trying to bring out the KEF’ness of that system.

This is just my take. I have no commercial intent or interest. I simply want to have a reasonably good sound in my car. I also intend to keep things lightweight and simple in true Lotus fashion.

Finally, I also intend to do everything within a relatively limited budget. Some investment will be needed, but nothing out-of-proportion.

I think this is a reasonable take -- and from the sounds of it, won't be very costly to upgrade or add weight! I'm eager to hear your ideas.

 

[Fasttoys]

I drove the Electre today. i also listened to the Kef system, so much better. Sounds unbelievable very nice system similar to my B&W in my BMW.

 

[Time2Fly]

@Tokion @Eagle7 when you guys do your teardowns could you do a journal for those who want to follow for some diy improved audio?

 

[Pegasi]

The audio system isn’t a total disaster and it does have clarity, but at the same time, something weird is going on with the bass. The large plastic trim under the rear window, behind the seats is not well braced at all and can rattle, I suspect that is part of the issue with the bass distortion/colouration.

Well that's good news. Never been in a good bass system where something wasn't rattling!

 

[Eagle7]

I drove the Electre today. i also listened to the Kef system, so much better. Sounds unbelievable very nice system similar to my B&W in my BMW. View attachment 35582View attachment 35583View attachment 35584View attachment 35585

The Emira looks so small by comparison!

 

[Time2Fly]

One of the complaints I've read in reviews and seen in videos is the glare off the center channel. I was just watching the latest batch of videos and it's not wrong; there's a big glare from the reflection of the center channel on the inside of the windshield.

Has anyone flocked this or coated it in some way to cut the glare?

@Aerie what are the odds of a matte carbon grille to replace the stock silver one? Looks like removal would be a breeze.

Update: they said they'd make one!

 

[kitkat]

One of the complaints I've read in reviews and seen in videos is the glare off the center channel. I was just watching the latest batch of videos and it's not wrong; there's a big glare from the reflection of the center channel on the inside of the windshield.

Has anyone flocked this or coated it in some way to cut the glare?

@Aerie what are the odds of a matte carbon grille to replace the stock silver one? Looks like removal would be a breeze.

View attachment 35822

I’ve got to imagine any sort of coating there is going to mess with the sensor.

 

[Time2Fly]

I’ve got to imagine any sort of coating there is going to mess with the sensor.

The sensor looks to be just a standard light sensor, and that part can be detached and reattached to the new grille.

 

[K_Squared]

Skip to 8:45 for comments on the KEF system from someone who had it for a week:

 

[Tokion]

I really enjoyed Annie’s Emira-review and I have subscribed to her channel. However, I cannot without further accept her comment regarding the car audio system for more than she says (that she likes it, and that it seems to satisfy her). My own criteria may be different. I have heard it in at least 3 different Emira (all V6 First Edition cars) and I am personally not pleased with it. However, I am still waiting for the delivery of my own i4 (AMG) car, so I cannot say more until I get some additional experience with the system. I have great confidence in KEF, and I truly want a KEF system to sound good. Even if I determine to modify the system; my purpose is to make those KEF drivers “sing”

 

[Lotus Eric]

I’m sorry to say I have low expectations for the KEF audio system in the Emira as:

- KEF is historically known for horn tweeters which are not well suited for sitting close to. And Uni-Q‘s “surround” is also not well suited to cars where you actually want somewhat of a sweet spot in center as driver and passenger don’t move. And you don’t want reflections in a car.
- This is KEFs first attempt at car audio which has a whole host of issues they’ve never encountered before
- DC and Harmon Kardon amps are decidely mid level for car audio.
- lack or window pillar or right/left tweeters in dash can’t help put compromise high range sound and channel separation
- whatever the “booster” amp is used for, it’s not good as the term implies add-on speaker-level application which is the lowest quality and usually used for cheap after market add-on power at the expense of sound quality. And 340 watts is not that impressive when you include subwoofer amp.
- open air subwoofers are just bad, period as you need a sealed cabinet bolted to the fame to feel it.
- reviews have been modest at best so far. It’s hard to build a below “ok“ quality system nowadays and that’s probably what this is. People who say it’s good system probably say the same thing about portable blue tooth speakers.

And perhaps worse of all, the speaker and amp placement and grills with booster system design make it look like it’s going to be very hard to do a decent parts swap out after market upgrade.

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but the car itself should make it a minor shortfall…

 

[Xroyalnavy]

I’m sorry to say I have low expectations for the KEF audio system in the Emira as:

- KEF is historically known for horn tweeters which are not well suited for sitting close to. And Uni-Q‘s “surround” is also not well suited to cars where you actually want somewhat of a sweet spot in center as driver and passenger don’t move. And you don’t want reflections in a car.
- This is KEFs first attempt at car audio which has a whole host of issues they’ve never encountered before
- DC and Harmon Kardon amps are decidely mid level for car audio.
- lack or window pillar or right/left tweeters in dash can’t help put compromise high range sound and channel separation
- whatever the “booster” amp is used for, it’s not good as the term implies add-on speaker-level application which is the lowest quality and usually used for cheap after market add-on power at the expense of sound quality. And 340 watts is not that impressive when you include subwoofer amp.
- open air subwoofers are just bad, period as you need a sealed cabinet bolted to the fame to feel it.
- reviews have been modest at best so far. It’s hard to build a below “ok“ quality system nowadays and that’s probably what this is. People who say it’s good system probably say the same thing about portable blue tooth speakers.

And perhaps worse of all, the speaker and amp placement and grills with booster system design make it look like it’s going to be very hard to do a decent parts swap out after market upgrade.

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but the car itself should make it a minor shortfall…

When you now rely on hi-tech hearing aids this all becomes moot. My younger days of rock concerts and jet engines ensured that “hi-fi” was now in the rear view mirror. I probably wouldn’t even turn the radio on. Take care of your hearing, there’s no way back once it’s gone.

 

[Nova]

I’m sorry to say I have low expectations for the KEF audio system in the Emira as:

- KEF is historically known for horn tweeters which are not well suited for sitting close to. And Uni-Q‘s “surround” is also not well suited to cars where you actually want somewhat of a sweet spot in center as driver and passenger don’t move. And you don’t want reflections in a car.
- This is KEFs first attempt at car audio which has a whole host of issues they’ve never encountered before
- DC and Harmon Kardon amps are decidely mid level for car audio.
- lack or window pillar or right/left tweeters in dash can’t help put compromise high range sound and channel separation
- whatever the “booster” amp is used for, it’s not good as the term implies add-on speaker-level application which is the lowest quality and usually used for cheap after market add-on power at the expense of sound quality. And 340 watts is not that impressive when you include subwoofer amp.
- open air subwoofers are just bad, period as you need a sealed cabinet bolted to the fame to feel it.
- reviews have been modest at best so far. It’s hard to build a below “ok“ quality system nowadays and that’s probably what this is. People who say it’s good system probably say the same thing about portable blue tooth speakers.

And perhaps worse of all, the speaker and amp placement and grills with booster system design make it look like it’s going to be very hard to do a decent parts swap out after market upgrade.

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but the car itself should make it a minor shortfall…

The Emira may have the worst car stereo ever. The base system may sound better than the KEF system. But it would not be for any of the reasons you listed.

Edit: Sorry, I wrote this on my phone, I didn't mean for it to come across so confrontational. What I mean to say, imagine a gentle voice, is that the characteristics you listed aren't really issues. I am not a car audio expert, but I have built competition car audio sound systems, and I currently work in the consumer audio industry.

 

[VL3X]

I am not a car audio expert, but I have built competition car audio sound systems, and I currently work in the consumer audio industry.

This certainly makes you an expert in my eyes (or.. ears).

 

[Nova]

This certainly makes you an expert in my eyes (or.. ears).

You should see/talk to the true experts. Haha. When I receive a message from them, I sometimes have to go do background research just to understand what they are talking about, so I can respond intelligently. There's been a lot of advancement in acoustic engineering in the past 20 years, especially when it comes to system integration. Given even fairly generic quality components, a good sounding system can be put together. So unless there is a serious defect in the KEF system's design that we can readily point to, I generally would refrain from speculating specifically why it seems to be so unpopular with those who has had the chance to listen to it.

 

[Speedy Emira]

I too am not experienced in car sound systems but without playing with any settings it is pretty decent sound. Once I’ve worked out where the sound settings are I can play music through Spotify and see how it compares to the Bose system in my last car.
One thing I can say is when buying new cars I’ve generally bought the best spec and never play music anywhere near the capability. It’s very easy to get carried away with not wanting to miss out on a factory upgrade.

 

[lynchy73]

The only ISSUE i have with the Emira setup is how the low frequencies get distorted as soon as you open a window. Even at low volume, there is distortion on the low frequencies when you open a window. The bass is quite descent when windows are closed. The rest of the sound is also descent (not amazing, but certainly not terrible).

The issue is not your typical distortion you’d get when over driving a speaker or an amp. It’s something else altogether.

I have a degree in Electroacoustics and have a 7.1.6 Atmos with 120” projector to watch TV, so whilst I’m not an Audiophile, I do know what descent sound, sounds like

 

[Bilbao-Emira]

I do know what descent sound, sounds like

is it also descent when you go uphill?

 

[Nova]

I have a degree in Electroacoustics

That makes you the resident expert. Our questions will be forthcoming once we get our cars.