More details for KEF Audio

[3MIRA]

But, back to the topic at hand. I am no sound expert, and even being one of the few on here to have heard said Kef sound system, the best I could say was that it was distinctly underwhelming and yes, certainly needed more power and BASE.
From a business point of view though, with potentially thousands of the little KEFFing buggers heading to the Lotus Factory over the next few months and years, at a B2B price of at least 4-500 pounds (?) and then sold to us as an extra of probably 2000 pounds, I would feel almost certain Kef would have requested and received a mock up chassi with a full interior of the EMIRA for them to work with in their Labs.

THIS opportunity for them to reallllllly get their brand out there does not come along every day and into the car market, and Geeeeeely group, which could really help them, it would just be something I would force through if I were Jeff at Kef and something Lotus should have been very willing to do, as the cost to them is maybe 20k, vs 5 million in spend with Kef, and to "guarantee" the best sound experience available, something they have so far failed with one way or another from what I experienced. I certainly hope they get it right, BUT, again no expert, but I am guessing some of the quality will also depend on the other parts in the system which Kef do not supply at all...... maybe this is the issue.
I still really struggle with the infotainment provider being used. I know a lot of you seem to think its great to use this company with experience etc, but from what I have seen... its way behind any car I have been in over the last few years apart from Leonards GR (sorry.. its leonard bashing night and its not even friday!) which has an awful system and screen......

after having watched the video, I am not sure if I am more or less convinced by my own premise that Keff had the inside of a car to work with..... I know I would have though!

They were given a clay model

 

[emiraspain]

They were given a clay model

that would explain a lot hah

 

[VL3X]

I love how this drama is all hidden within a KEF thread.

Moderator edit: was hidden in a KEF thread and has now been moved...

 

[Pegasi]

<Moderator snip - first section moved to new thread>

I better be able to hear that damn stereo clearly at 80MPH with the windows down. If I can't there will be hell to pay.

 

[emiraspain]

I better be able to hear that damn stereo clearly at 80MPH with the windows down. If I can't there will be hell to pay.

and about 115,000$ also to pay

 

[TomE]

Locking this thread temporarily while I prune the posts, move the customer service discussion into a new thread and leave this thread to focus on KEF. Back in a few minutes...

... and now unlocked again. Posts related to the discussion on Lotus customer service have been moved here:

Another trip around the buoy that is Lotus customer service...

Moderator edit: posts related to Lotus customer service moved from the KEF thread into a new thread here What else does TomE know… Stuff about the i4 that I have never been allowed to publish. And a bunch of other stuff told to me in confidence. If they pushed my early allocation back 2...

www.emiraforum.com

This thread is open again for discussion about KEF.

 

[Porter]

The power amp is a line level Harman booster amp so it’s an easy swap. Will be a piece of cake to swap it aftermarket as there’s no fibre connection using MOST or A2B protocols by the looks of things.

Do you know that it's not a digital connection between head unit and amp/DSP? I haven't seen any info on that either way, but it seems like it would be difficult to implement any of this stuff without the DSP and DAC sitting at the amplification stage. I can't imagine the head unit doing the "surround" soundfield conversion and level control in software, I think it would require too much system integration end-to-end and these are all hardware devices made by different manufacturers.

I would feel almost certain Kef would have requested and received a mock up chassis with a full interior of the EMIRA for them to work with in their Labs.

KEF isn't that big, and while I would love if they had some super sci-fi lab environment to do this stuff in, the reality for most speaker manufacturers (even fancy ones) is that they work in an ad-hoc workshop sort of environment. I mean one literally involving hot glue being applied to MDF boards and soldering irons being wielded by hand, not a dust-free robot-assisted assembly line on a factory floor with a separate fancy R&D skunkworks. It's weird, but some of the world's most expensive speakers (even ones costing 6 figures!) are still built by groups of nerdy engineering types in what amounts to a glorified woodworking shop.

I am guessing some of the quality will also depend on the other parts in the system which Kef do not supply at all...... maybe this is the issue.
I still really struggle with the infotainment provider being used. I know a lot of you seem to think its great to use this company with experience etc, but from what I have seen... its way behind any car I have been in over the last few years

Luckily the world has really progressed in the last few years with regard to standardization of parts and processing methods in source components (thanks mostly to streaming audio services), high quality D/A conversion as a commoditized and expected default, and the availability of reasonable quality amplification at an attainable price. The basic audio processing and DAC available today on something like a cell phone or a cheap Raspberry Pi would have been considered absolutely top-tier in the home consumer electronics industry as recently as 10-15 years ago.

It's difficult nowadays to really screw up the source signal too badly. The source material for anything playable in a car or other personal audio context is almost exclusively 2-channel PCM stereo audio, no matter what source it came from or how it was packed, compressed, or reconstituted along the way. Anybody's head unit will be fine in that regard, particularly if it leverages open standards-based software like Android Automotive, because the audio app chain (from streaming source to system mixer to digital volume control to the digital output) is all very well understood end-to-end and any UX bugs are fixable in software. From that point forward it's either an analog output stage impedance matching challenge with the chosen amp (if the DAC was in the head unit), or (and in this case more likely) the amp itself takes digital input and processes it with factory-programmed soundfield DSP and/or digital crossover before passing to the onboard per-channel DAC and amplification stages. Even with more than one amp involved in the chain I suspect this latter scenario is what will prove to be the case in the KEF/Geely system for the Emira.

after having watched the video, I am not sure if I am more or less convinced by my own premise that KEF had the inside of a car to work with..... I know I would have though!

Like I said... it's a workshop! They aren't unusual in that regard. Kind of weird to see it for the first time if you were expecting a more formalized, scalable production scenario.

 

[Leonard]

Do you know that it's not a digital connection between head unit and amp/DSP? I haven't seen any info on that either way, but it seems like it would be difficult to implement any of this stuff without the DSP and DAC sitting at the amplification stage. I can't imagine the head unit doing the "surround" soundfield conversion and level control in software, I think it would require too much system integration end-to-end and these are all hardware devices made by different manufacturers.


KEF isn't that big, and while I would love if they had some super sci-fi lab environment to do this stuff in, the reality for most speaker manufacturers (even fancy ones) is that they work in an ad-hoc workshop sort of environment. I mean one literally involving hot glue being applied to MDF boards and soldering irons being wielded by hand, not a dust-free robot-assisted assembly line on a factory floor with a separate fancy R&D skunkworks. It's weird, but some of the world's most expensive speakers (even ones costing 6 figures!) are still built by groups of nerdy engineering types in what amounts to a glorified woodworking shop.


Luckily the world has really progressed in the last few years with regard to standardization of parts and processing methods in source components (thanks mostly to streaming audio services), high quality D/A conversion as a commoditized and expected default, and the availability of reasonable quality amplification at an attainable price. The basic audio processing and DAC available today on something like a cell phone or a cheap Raspberry Pi would have been considered absolutely top-tier in the home consumer electronics industry as recently as 10-15 years ago.

It's difficult nowadays to really screw up the source signal too badly. The source material for anything playable in a car or other personal audio context is almost exclusively 2-channel PCM stereo audio, no matter what source it came from or how it was packed, compressed, or reconstituted along the way. Anybody's head unit will be fine in that regard, particularly if it leverages open standards-based software like Android Automotive, because the audio app chain (from streaming source to system mixer to digital volume control to the digital output) is all very well understood end-to-end and any UX bugs are fixable in software. From that point forward it's either an analog output stage impedance matching challenge with the chosen amp (if the DAC was in the head unit), or (and in this case more likely) the amp itself takes digital input and processes it with factory-programmed soundfield DSP and/or digital crossover before passing to the onboard per-channel DAC and amplification stages. Even with more than one amp involved in the chain I suspect this latter scenario is what will prove to be the case in the KEF/Geely system for the Emira.


Like I said... it's a workshop! They aren't unusual in that regard. Kind of weird to see it for the first time if you were expecting a more formalized, scalable production scenario.

Great insight

 

[Shyatic]

I am planning to bring a cable to the test drive I have scheduled, so I can validate the stereo. I ordered a BMW X7 and splurged for the Bowers and Wilkins stereo because I love blasting the music while I drive, the Emira will be no different!

 

[RENDERMAN]

I was an audiophile in the 70s, 80s and 90s but boy, you guys sound like Bob Carver Sound engineering just before listening to the Emira sound system, just sit in an Elise and listen to the radio, I'm sure the Emira is going to sound marvelous darlin!

 

[Speedluvver]

ok... so at Bell and Colvill today, I was early to the event, and we connected an iPhone to the car play in the Emira, and played some Deadmau5. Sound was clean and bass good. I am not concerned about this system now at all....

 

[TomE]

And that was a production-spec dealer demo car with the increased power for the KEF system compared to the previous press and prototype cars

 

[TomAce]

I was at the dealer on Thursday and also had the chance to play with the sound system. And it was no letdown for me, connected via Apple Carplay and played my spotify playlist. Sound is phemomenal for a Lotus.

The screen is pretty fast and reactive, it‘s good sounding. So now worries there for me.

More concerning for me personaly is the seats and the shifting.

I have to wait for the test drive, hopefully on 15th of October.

Then I will see how the seats will be, I personaly find the bolstering a little too firm and the side bolsters don‘t really „hug“ me and I‘m not slim.

Same with the gear shifter, I‘m very curious how it will perform on the test drive.

 

[Matthaus]

Anyone tried an Android phone with the KEF system? also wondering how the integration was with the screen etc

 

[kenniGT]

Do you have any thoughts on the KEF stereo? I'm very curious to hear feedback from someone who has a production grade car. Thank you for sharing!

Hi there,
I would not expect much.
Decent caraudio cost monies and requires installation almost no manufacturer goes for.
They only go for 'branding'. Kef - with no caraudio experience - here.
And they provided uniq solution (probably from lower end kef speakers), which is kef's name for tweeter inserted inside mid woofer. Good solution for better stereo imaging, but only makes sense if speakers are installed in front of the listener, so in windscreen pillar or corners of the the dashboard (using windscreen as reflective surface) would make sense, not the door panel. From door location there will be no stereo image, but... it is much cheaper to do, especially with concentric uniq solution - just one mount for twitter and mid woofer. I am sure they did not do deadening in the door (cost, time consuming, added weight), and used plastic for woofer mount as all other producers do. Doors are good only for kick bass woofers installation, as lower frequency sound waves are not directional. Here they mounted even twitter inside door panel - well, concentric uni-q solution
Home speakers you place in front of you. We have pair of ears, and our brain can compute stereo sound into image. That is stereo sound principle. If you place speakers under your elbows it is not going to work.
Good thing is emira has bottom of the window post wide enough to accommodate mid and twitter, so it can be upgraded later by custom installation. Something like below will be feasible to do without limiting visibility:

 

[JKP]

Hi there,
I would not expect much.
Decent caraudio cost monies and requires installation almost no manufacturer goes for.
They only go for 'branding'. Kef - with no caraudio experience - here.
And they provided uniq solution (probably from lower end kef speakers), which is kef's name for tweeter inserted inside mid woofer. Good solution for better stereo imaging, but only makes sense if speakers are installed in front of the listener, so in windscreen pillar or corners of the the dashboard (using windscreen as reflective surface) would make sense, not the door panel. From door location there will be no stereo image, but... it is much cheaper to do, especially with concentric uniq solution - just one mount for twitter and mid woofer. I am sure they did not do deadening in the door (cost, time consuming, added weight), and used plastic for woofer mount as all other producers do. Doors are good only for kick bass woofers installation, as lower frequency sound waves are not directional. Here they mounted even twitter inside door panel - well, concentric uni-q solution
Home speakers you place in front of you. We have pair of ears, and our brain can compute stereo sound into image. That is stereo sound principle. If you place speakers under your elbows it is not going to work.
Good thing is emira has bottom of the window post wide enough to accommodate mid and twitter, so it can be upgraded later by custom installation. Something like below will be feasible to do without limiting visibility:

Appreciate the response, thanks!

 

[kenniGT]

Appreciate the response, thanks!

No problem.

There is good youtube channel from UK custom audio installers, which can easy educate us (just by watching) a lot about what is good sound in the car: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCKJUj746WOIUNjv5imYs6yA/videos

 

[RENDERMAN]

I love how this drama is all hidden within a KEF thread.

Moderator edit: was hidden in a KEF thread and has now been moved...

My dyslexia keeps reading KFC

 

[Eagle7]

Long story short:
- my Emira has over 800 km
- after consultation with my friendly dealer in Prague I can go up to 5800 rpm and use all driving modes
- I can go to full rpms after another approx. 1500 kms (approx. 2500 kms total)
- used the Sport mode - much better sound, finally as a real sports car ;-) ... because of heavy traffic I can't see a huge difference in power, must wait for less traffic
- didn't use the Track mode yet - because of slightly wet road
- comsumption of my Emira is between 10.1 and 15.9 l/100 km, use the 98 RON fuel (named optimistically Verva 100 in the Czech Republic)
- sound of the KEF system it's not getting better :-(((

How many hours on the KEF?

I just thought of something... you have the Alcantara interior. Alcantara would act like a sound deadener. Cars with the leather interior might sound better; just a thought.

 

[1stczechemira]

How many hours on the KEF?

maybe 12 hours... somebody wrote on another thread that it gets better after 25 hours but I don't believe it :-(