New Emira SE announced

In the news here yesterday: the 2025 i4 Turbo SE.

https://www.drive.com.au/news/2025-lotus-emira-update-revealed/

 

[Eagle7]

Everything has changed in the last 12 months with regards to ICE vs EV, with pretty much all the manufacturers changing their plans and going back to ICE production. The rumors of the presumed death of the Toyota V6 may be greatly exaggerated.

 

[CarGuy44]

The V6 manual will be the engine to have in the distant future. It will be the engine of choice for the enthusiast. I am biased though!

 

[Ethnic6]

The V6 manual will be the engine to have in the distant future. It will be the engine of choice for the enthusiast. I am biased though!

Oh yeah, if it was a weekend car I would have gotten the V6 manual as well hands down. But I'm using my Emira as a daily and constant shifting in LA traffic is just not ideal for my knees at my age lol. So I'm excited to see what my I4 will have to offer, considering it is lighter and now faster than the V6 since it's Hp has been boosted to 400 (according to lotus webpage) I kind of want to see a drag race between the two engines at some point

 

[Jinba ittai]

Oh yeah, if it was a weekend car I would have gotten the V6 manual as well hands down. But I'm using my Emira as a daily and constant shifting in LA traffic is just not ideal for my knees at my age lol. So I'm excited to see what my I4 will have to offer, considering it is lighter and now faster than the V6 since it's Hp has been boosted to 400 (according to lotus webpage) I kind of want to see a drag race between the two engines at some point

Lotus is claiming 4.3s 0-62 for the v6 and 4.0s 0-62 for the i4, so I think you’ve got the drag race by a fair margin. I’m a sucker for a manual but thems the facts.

 

[Emira Fan]

I kind of want to see a drag race between the two engines at some point

From Lotus Spec's page on the US portal.

Will be interesting to see Car & Drivers testing results, as they typically manage to produce result better than manufactures claims. Suspect the evaluation will be much better than the AMG Demo car from 2023, with the DTC revisions and power output increase.
Based on a couple images from the Chinese cars the AMG engines max output may actually be 411 HP.

 

[Ethnic6]

View attachment 53105
From Lotus Spec's page on the US portal.

Will be interesting to see Car & Drivers testing results, as they typically manage to produce result better than manufactures claims. Suspect the evaluation will be much better than the AMG Demo car from 2023, with the DTC revisions and power output increase.
Based on a couple images from the Chinese cars the AMG engines max output may actually be 411 HP.

Interesting indeed, I'd like to see a US i4 dyno to see if we have the same output as the chinese i4s would be pretty cool if our i4s put out 411 horses also.

 

[Steve24]

View attachment 53105
From Lotus Spec's page on the US portal.

Will be interesting to see Car & Drivers testing results, as they typically manage to produce result better than manufactures claims. Suspect the evaluation will be much better than the AMG Demo car from 2023, with the DTC revisions and power output increase.
Based on a couple images from the Chinese cars the AMG engines max output may actually be 411 HP.

It would be a lot closer if they both had the DCT transmission.

As much as I love the manual, I do think it's a shame the V6 isn't offered with a DCT as well. THAT, in my view, would have been the one to have.

 

[Biggles of Norwich]

My 400hp I4 Emira (China version) showed 411bhp peak and 480Nm (not at the same time) last time I checked.

The I4 is quite short geared, has a descent launch control and changes gear quick. It would be hard to stick with it off the line in the V6 manual, unless the V6 had a descent power advantage (which it doesn’t). The V6 gear change isn’t the quickest IME and with it being a 6 speed, the gears are significantly longer.

Out of interest, how did the 411hp "show"? Assuming it's on the infotainment system screen, that is a software generated estimate and not a real measurement.

 

[Emira Fan]

software generated estimate and not a real measurement.

For sure it's a computation / synthetic , but interesting non the less.

We'll know more once some 'Magazine, C&R, R&T' get's their hands on a 2024 Turbo and runs a 0-60.
If they achieve better than 3.8s to 60mph the car likely has more than 400hp.

This is an interesting read on the CLA45
[https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a33925576/2020-mercedes-amg-cla45-4matic-by-the-numbers/]

The 3743-pound CLA45 the AMG M139 engine--- [launch-control-enabled 3.7-second 60-mph time,]. CLA is almost 600 lbs heavier with only 22 more hp over the 400HP lotus claim. Yes, the CLA45 is AWD - but the heavily rear biassed weight distribution should keep the Emria from its spinning wheels.
DCT and launch-control on a Turbo engine should be pretty impressive.

 

[Tomwa]

Everything has changed in the last 12 months with regards to ICE vs EV, with pretty much all the manufacturers changing their plans and going back to ICE production. The rumors of the presumed death of the Toyota V6 may be greatly exaggerated.

I think its pretty official that the 2GR is out of production. Toyota may still have committed units to Lotus, whether its New Old Stock, or the last of the production castings or what-have you. But I don't think there's going to be some "Surprise" that the Toyota V6 will actually still be available for an additional 5 years or anything.

 

[crashprash]

I think its pretty official that the 2GR is out of production. Toyota may still have committed units to Lotus, whether its New Old Stock, or the last of the production castings or what-have you. But I don't think there's going to be some "Surprise" that the Toyota V6 will actually still be available for an additional 5 years or anything.

So what happens if a blown engine needs to be fully replaced but there aren't any being made or even spares for it?

 

[Hell4Leather]

So what happens if a blown engine needs to be fully replaced but there aren't any being made or even spares for it?

A B58 should fit

 

[Tomwa]

So what happens if a blown engine needs to be fully replaced but there aren't any being made or even spares for it?

Pull one out of a Camry? Tacoma, Lexus, etc etc. It's a very well sold engine. No lack of used engines out there

 

[Porter]

I think its pretty official that the 2GR is out of production. Toyota may still have committed units to Lotus, whether its New Old Stock, or the last of the production castings or what-have you. But I don't think there's going to be some "Surprise" that the Toyota V6 will actually still be available for an additional 5 years or anything.

That's not the case. Toyota will no longer be building the 2GR in volume to put in their own cars for retail sale, which is not the same thing as the engine itself being "out of production".

Toyota will likely continue to be able to supply 2GR engines on a small batch production basis for literally decades to come, both for their own global parts supply network and also for external customers like Lotus.

 

[Tomwa]

That's not the case. Toyota will no longer be building the 2GR in volume to put in their own cars for retail sale, which is not the same thing as the engine itself being "out of production".

Toyota will likely continue to be able to supply 2GR engines on a small batch production basis for literally decades to come, both for their own global parts supply network and also for external customers like Lotus.

I don't think you have any basis to that claim any more than the opposite. The 2jz wasn't produced for "other parties" for decades to come after Toyota retired it from their fleet.

Maintaining castings, manufacturing and tooling costs money. Why would they do that if it's not at scale when their whole business is built on margins at scale?

 

[Porter]

I don't think you have any basis to that claim any more than the opposite. The 2jz wasn't produced for "other parties" for decades to come after Toyota retired it from their fleet.

Maintaining castings, manufacturing and tooling costs money. Why would they do that if it's not at scale when their whole business is built on margins at scale?

We covered this ad nauseam in this forum going back literally years. Toyota has engine production facilities all over the world, and they make engines both for their own cars and for other purposes, including for industrial and commercial customers.

The range of engines that they continue to produce today is far, far greater than the range used in their own production vehicles, which by the way are built in unrelated factories. They are separate lines of business. They have both dedicated mass production engine facilities, and also smaller more flexible facilities that can do medium size batches, small size batches, and even some bespoke R&D style engine production work.

They can literally make any engine that they have to castings for, on a special order basis. I know of specialty manufacturers in Africa, for example, there are still building brand new J70 Land Cruisers, a type that Toyota hasn't built since the 1990s, and Toyota manufactures batches of engines for them whenever they submit an order. Those engines haven't been used by Toyota for decades.

So no, I think you're fully wrong on this. If you had the kind of money needed to place an order for, say, 100 2JZ engine blocks, Toyota would be happy to take your money and put your order in the queue for small batch production. It's not the kind of thing they do for one individual yahoo hobbyist, but it's definitely the kind of thing they do for a serious commercial customer with an interest in building something around a Toyota powertrain. That's how the engine production industry works.

 

[Tomwa]

We covered this ad nauseam in this forum going back literally years. Toyota has engine production facilities all over the world, and they make engines both for their own cars and for other purposes, including for industrial and commercial customers.

The range of engines that they continue to produce today is far, far greater than the range used in their own production vehicles, which by the way are built in unrelated factories. They are separate lines of business. They have both dedicated mass production engine facilities, and also smaller more flexible facilities that can do medium size batches, small size batches, and even some bespoke R&D style engine production work.

They can literally make any engine that they have to castings for, on a special order basis. I know of specialty manufacturers in Africa, for example, there are still building brand new J70 Land Cruisers, a type that Toyota hasn't built since the 1990s, and Toyota manufactures batches of engines for them whenever they submit an order. Those engines haven't been used by Toyota for decades.

So no, I think you're fully wrong on this. If you had the kind of money needed to place an order for, say, 100 2JZ engine blocks, Toyota would be happy to take your money and put your order in the queue for small batch production. It's not the kind of thing they do for one individual yahoo hobbyist, but it's definitely the kind of thing they do for a serious commercial customer with an interest in building something around a Toyota powertrain. That's how the engine production industry works.

I don't mean to be argumentative just for the sake of it. After all...memes about "someone might be wrong on the internet" is a thing.

I will grant that ending manufacturing in the US (where Toyota themselves say the engine isn produced) of the 2GR doesn't mean it will be immediately gone. After all the 4AG and S series engines were around from the 1980s all the way until 2007-ish. They do have other facilities, usually producing cars for domestic sales (thai cars for thai people, Brazil cars for Brazilians, and so on) there are many countries where you can "buy new" cars that Toyota stopped producing. (Or other manufacturers doing this. Like the Mexican Ford Ranger until US decided to bring it back as well)

However, the cars that share the 2GR in other markets (Tacoma to the Hilux) don't use a 2GR...Indonesia and Thailand don't have cars with 2GR.

Most of the European Toyotas don't have a v6, sticking to smaller i4 and i3 motors. So, who is making the 2GR if the US stops? This idea they will keep castings and machining around I just don't think is a thing, outside of domestic continuation for existing models that have retired in other markets.

I would bet you could not ask for 100 2jz's to be cast up, cranks forged, heads machined, bores honed, slapped up and delivered. There is incredible demand for that motor, if a company could put in an order and be selling them, they would be. Instead Dart has created a block you can buy from them, because the demand exists.

It may be possible yet for a number of years for you to do this for the 2GR but there is no way it is economically the same experience as just asking fresh common assembly line motors to be thrown on a pallet instead. The number of tools, specs, parts, training, space, manufacturing volume (do they just have foundries capable of swapping things out while they are producing millions of cars?) just does not compute.

 

[Emira Fan]

Hey Guys, Please start a new thread to discuss the future of the Toyota V6. Getting pretty far away from thread topic Emira SE, thank you

 

[Matthaus]

So the question is, why doesn't the UK have the SE and when will we see something similar?

 

[Lotustoronto]

So the question is, why doesn't the UK have the SE and when will we see something similar?

Perhaps the UK market is bit saturated with Emira's at the moment and they prefer to allocate production to ROW before ramping up UK and EU again. I suspect the UK will get SE 400 BHP i4 soon enough.