So is it a great car?

[Lotustoronto]

It's not tie man it depends on what you talking about? Style of course Emira wins, but we talking about as "driver's car", GTS 4.0 engine is just pure joy, the way it revs, the redline feel, the way power builds up, the way it vibrates the car, the intake sound, the PDK is alot of joy also the way it sounds in Sports mode or the feel of G Force in Sports Plus when you change gears, the Manual in Porsche felt more precise to me (lighter but not in a bad way), there's just something special about Porsches Powertrain+ Transmission combo that you don't get bored from.

What I noticed in Lotus driving Evora GT or the Exige Final edition which I have at home is that the engine sounds nice and fun but doesn't excite you for long, transmission is the same, it seems it lacks 2020s refinement, the way other manufacturers were pushing their engines to higher RPM, to better power delivery, to better sound (interior at least), Lotus seems lacking, now consider that Exige Final edition(I have it with exhaust flap mod) or Evora GT engines are even superior to that of Emira I can't say Emira will do something as "Driver's car", I expected that anyway, I said that from start.

Beating Porsche at their game is very difficult, only Exige had a chance due to the weight difference, and I can see alot preferring it even me personally prefer Exige to GT4, Emira on other hand it sacrificed the weight for usability, which is a good thing hence I'm buying it but makes it worse as a driver's car argument, but as a fun daily usability car Emira will give more character due to being more special at low speeds than Porsche which you have to push it to get the most out of it.

My final judgement is when I get to drive production version of Emira or mine when it arrives, that won't be long hopefully.

I respect the opinion... but I think a tie with GTS 4.0 has it's merits;

The Emira wins on looks (which is pretty important), superior steering and handling feel, modern interior/better tech (after reviewing the Link & co tech vs Cayman), performance 0-60 etc is pretty much the same, HP/Weight Ratio same. Sound of engine is again debatble. Better gear ratios than Cayman.

Cayman wins on PDK, fit/finish of interior, dealer network, Engine for high revving / trans manual for feel (besides the gearing) I have driven a few GT4's and the gearing outside of track makes it difficult to open up 4,500-8,000 redline. Same for GTS.

To me that is a tie. A car is the whole pkg and what you place higher in a category. If it's purely cargo space in a sports car, yes Cayman wins. If it's straight up curb appeal, Emira Wins. 0-60 time with manual it's pretty much same. Want to be able to row gears out of third and still hear the engine howl, Emira Wins. Want to redline to 8K, Cayman wins.

Perfomance to me is more how a car can lap a track, not 0-60 or most HP/ 1/4 Mile times. Maybe the GTS is faster, maybe Emira with sport / cup 2's is faster... We don't know yet. Until then it's a tie to me. It's not as fast as a GT4.... That one is coming.

The Exige Cup 430 would destroy a GT4 on most tracks

Look where it slot on Anglessey

These are lap times from Imola; The last Exige was a very quick beast.

 

[Magicman]

I read some of these threads and wonder why many of you are bothering to buy an emira given how much better you think most of the competition is

 

[Tonyshepp]

It's not tie man it depends on what you talking about? Style of course Emira wins, but we talking about as "driver's car", GTS 4.0 engine is just pure joy, the way it revs, the redline feel, the way power builds up, the way it vibrates the car, the intake sound, the PDK is alot of joy also the way it sounds in Sports mode or the feel of G Force in Sports Plus when you change gears, the Manual in Porsche felt more precise to me (lighter but not in a bad way), there's just something special about Porsches Powertrain+ Transmission combo that you don't get bored from.

What I noticed in Lotus driving Evora GT or the Exige Final edition which I have at home is that the engine sounds nice and fun but doesn't excite you for long, transmission is the same, it seems it lacks 2020s refinement, the way other manufacturers were pushing their engines to higher RPM, to better power delivery, to better sound (interior at least), Lotus seems lacking, now consider that Exige Final edition(I have it with exhaust flap mod) or Evora GT engines are even superior to that of Emira I can't say Emira will do something as "Driver's car", I expected that anyway, I said that from start.

Beating Porsche at their game is very difficult, only Exige had a chance due to the weight difference, and I can see alot preferring it even me personally prefer Exige to GT4, Emira on other hand it sacrificed the weight for usability, which is a good thing hence I'm buying it but makes it worse as a driver's car argument, but as a fun daily usability car Emira will give more character due to being more special at low speeds than Porsche which you have to push it to get the most out of it.

My final judgement is when I get to drive production version of Emira or mine when it arrives, that won't be long hopefully.

BMW had 8500 rpm and 420hp out of a 4 litre engine 15 years ago. The high rpm engines are great when rung out but frustrating around town. I’m looking forward for more low down torque from the super charger and it being a more usable daily. Having said that revving out to 8500rpm is a great noise but I’d have the V10 from Audi over a GT4.
The Emira meets its design brief being a broad market car that attracts new customers to the brand like me I can forgive a lot of deficiencies with the car for those exotic looks.
If I came alongside a GT4 or GTS in my Emira I will feel very smug.

 

[Lotustoronto]

Forgot to mention rarity vs Porsche Cayman. This is a big one for me as well. As our Spanish friend says, it's the romantic choice.

 

[TRX250EX]

BMW had 8500 rpm and 420hp out of a 4 litre engine 15 years ago. The high rpm engines are great when rung out but frustrating around town. I’m looking forward for more low down torque from the super charger and it being a more usable daily. Having said that revving out to 8500rpm is a great noise but I’d have the V10 from Audi over a GT4.
The Emira meets its design brief being a broad market car that attracts new customers to the brand like me I can forgive a lot of deficiencies with the car for those exotic looks.
If I came alongside a GT4 or GTS in my Emira I will feel very smug.

It's not just high RPM, Porsche Flat 6 is really good it's different, I driven/owned even Ferraris and 458 with 9000RPM screams less for me than a 981 Cayman GTS which had a redline of 7700-7800RPM.

As for Torque both Emira and Cayman GTS 4.0 have same Torque with similar Torque curve, as I said and I say again, Emira shines on streets but Porsche shines on track however if you want better "driver's car" it's the Porsche cause they take into account driving it to the limits not just low speed cruising.

I'm just being realistic in here and saying don't expect Emira to beat the Cayman as driver's car, if you take into account the looks or rare factor or something unique then that's another story, I'm solely talking about driving factor here.

 

[emiraspain]

Forgot to mention rarity vs Porsche Cayman. This is a big one for me as well. As our Spanish friend says, it's the romantic choice.

haha.. im not so Spanish......
I agree with your argument, apart from the 0-60... I am afraid the truth will probably show even the GTS to be at least 0.5 seconds quicker there... Porsche understate and Lotus over state, but we will await Jethro Tull to fill us in, no doubt with an arrogante grin on his face.
But yes, as you say, uniqueness and being different to the crowd is a good one and I say that as a porsche owner, albeit again different haha
I agree, its pretty much a tie. I also agree with our friend, the gear box on the GTS manual is very light and long throw too, IMO, you hardly even realise you've changed gear. Its like sticking it in a bowl of jelly and wiggling it round, it goes in okay, but you'd hardly notice the gear change.
CLose enough for a tie...... What colour have you gone with Lotus Toronto?

 

[Lotustoronto]

haha.. im not so Spanish......
I agree with your argument, apart from the 0-60... I am afraid the truth will probably show even the GTS to be at least 0.5 seconds quicker there... Porsche understate and Lotus over state, but we will await Jethro Tull to fill us in, no doubt with an arrogante grin on his face.
But yes, as you say, uniqueness and being different to the crowd is a good one and I say that as a porsche owner, albeit again different haha
I agree, its pretty much a tie. I also agree with our friend, the gear box on the GTS manual is very light and long throw too, IMO, you hardly even realise you've changed gear. Its like sticking it in a bowl of jelly and wiggling it round, it goes in okay, but you'd hardly notice the gear change.
CLose enough for a tie...... What colour have you gone with Lotus Toronto?

Since I deposited late 2021 in Canada, No F/E for me, so I am waiting for base colours to be revealed before deciding.

My choice at first was DV, black alcantara with yellow stitch, yellow callipers, FE launch wheels. However if I had to lock in a spec today I would do Seneca Blue. Interior the same. So the launch car. Yellow would be third, then Nimbus w/ brown interior. Hoping for a better green choice to come along. Since all the delays, I decided to pick something else up, probably 997.2 C4S. Going to see one on the weekend. I will be placing a deposit for the final edition V6 Emira or pushing my current deposit, depends when my order/delivery time will be and my feelings after the test drive.

 

[emiraspain]

Since I deposited late 2021 in Canada, No F/E for me, so I am waiting for base colours to be revealed before deciding.

My choice at first was DV, black alcantara with yellow stitch, yellow callipers, FE launch wheels. However if I had to lock in a spec today I would do Seneca Blue. Interior the same. So the launch car. Yellow would be third, then Nimbus w/ brown interior. Hoping for a better green choice to come along. Since all the delays, I decided to pick something else up, probably 997.2 C4S. Going to see one on the weekend. I will be placing a deposit for the final edition V6 Emira or pushing my current deposit, depends when my order/delivery time will be and my feelings after the test drive.

okey dokey..... Well, with the amount of people doubting on here now, I am hoping to get in my car the same time the dealers do haha. On that note, time for bed

 

[GetawayDriving]

If it doesn't beat yet alone be comparable to an M2 then what the hell has gone wrong.
The M2 is fat and slowish and nose heavy

Which again brings it back to: how does it compare to Evora?

 

[Vanman1936]

How refreshing (as the OP), having been a Pistonhead only car forum guy you get so many keyboard loons who have some odd axe to grind….it genuinely concerning how people get so bent out of shape over a car they haven’t driven (not just the Emira).

I agree with the general sentiment, awesome looks, feel good factor, a great 8/9 10ths car, usable performance and reliability plus rare on the roads it’s got to be a real alternative to a Cayman XXX.

I can’t wait to hear real owners giving real reviews. Been in touch with B&C and should be soon to book one.

As an aside have just acquired a Stelvio Quadra Thingy….wow, just wow!

 

[lion shf]

How refreshing (as the OP), having been a Pistonhead only car forum guy you get so many keyboard loons who have some odd axe to grind….it genuinely concerning how people get so bent out of shape over a car they haven’t driven (not just the Emira).

I agree with the general sentiment, awesome looks, feel good factor, a great 8/9 10ths car, usable performance and reliability plus rare on the roads it’s got to be a real alternative to a Cayman XXX.

I can’t wait to hear real owners giving real reviews. Been in touch with B&C and should be soon to book one.

As an aside have just acquired a Stelvio Quadra Thingy….wow, just wow!

Pic. Love those

 

[Cachaco131]

No to me even it's not a better car at all tbh, yes it's faster but doesn't mean better, if I had to choose easily Emira over M2C without a second guess, infact will take Emira over M4C also.

I'll take my old Elise over my F80 ZCP any day. Yes, the F80 highway overtakes is almost video game comical, and it most tracks it would crush the Elise. But that doesn't make it better.

 

[DJS]

I think you know the answer and rightly so. The Emira, from someone who has driven it for 2 hours, feeling sick, but not the cars fault, is a good car, a different car, a romantics car (this is now my favourite phrase referring to the car).
Are you going to get burnt, 100% not. Is it a great car, not quite no, at 80k there are options, but none look like it does from the outside. On the inside, engine and handling wise, there are clearly things not far away or better, the Cayman GTS being the clear overall option. At 60k it would be great value, but I doubt it will come in for less than 65/67 on the road in the end.
I repeat, IMO it's a good car, its even a very good overall package of a car. But I cant quite bring myself to say its great, even though I want to!!! However, I may when I have had it and driven it for a few hundred/thousand miles on my own, or with a young hot..... I mean on a nice hot dat. In fact, I kind of feel that like the early iPhone, it will grow on me, it has the potential more than most cars. I think the GTS I would go off and get bored of, but this will be the opposite.

You can buy with no worries at all, the car will not burn you, I simply hope Lotus themselves don't either!

This is like an episode at the end of scooby doo when they pull the mask off emiraspain and it turns out it’s Jethro.

 

[DaaS]

Hmm, that's definitely one thing I love about my M2C.

On highways, when I move to the far left to pass traffic, everyone behind me quickly becomes a tiny dot. And I'm barely even really putting that much input into the throttle.

Is the Emira really that slow????

Is Emira that slow? It depends on your definition of slow. Back in high school, I thought my 140hp car was fast

Having owned a 2018 F80 M3C with S55, 2021 Supra with B58 and an Evora GT, the slowest of the bunch is the Evora GT in straight line performance. The difference isn't huge, but it's there in all 3 cars. According to my butt dyno on the street, both M3C and Supra feel similar in acceleration, with M3C slightly ahead and with a more Naturally Aspirated power delivery. Again, according to the butt dyno on the street, Evora GT feels slower than the Supra. This could be because Evora GT has NA power delivery feel, while Supra is more of a turbo punch type delivery. Plus the B58 in Supra produces a lot more hp/tq than it's published numbers. So while the Evora GT isn't that much slower, it's NA delivery makes it feel slower when compared to BMW turbo engines.

I expect Emira to be slightly slower than the Evora GT and that's OK for me. If acceleration is your jam, then you may be disappointed with Emira V6 (but not the entire car). I have been there and done that, and now I prefer a more old school driving experience that is very hard to find in a new car. I get that experience with the Evora GT, and I expect 90% of that in the Emira.

 

[Maurice R]

How refreshing (as the OP), having been a Pistonhead only car forum guy you get so many keyboard loons who have some odd axe to grind….it genuinely concerning how people get so bent out of shape over a car they haven’t driven (not just the Emira).

I agree with the general sentiment, awesome looks, feel good factor, a great 8/9 10ths car, usable performance and reliability plus rare on the roads it’s got to be a real alternative to a Cayman XXX.

I can’t wait to hear real owners giving real reviews. Been in touch with B&C and should be soon to book one.

As an aside have just acquired a Stelvio Quadra Thingy….wow, just wow!

Agree on the Stelvio

 

[Matt]

The most important thing is the driving excitement with impressive looking.
I had a chance to drive an F430 a few years ago, the 480HP was a little excessive for me. So, I suppose 400HP is appropriate and adequate .

 

[Magicman]

Is Emira that slow? It depends on your definition of slow. Back in high school, I thought my 140hp car was fast

Having owned a 2018 F80 M3C with S55, 2021 Supra with B58 and an Evora GT, the slowest of the bunch is the Evora GT in straight line performance. The difference isn't huge, but it's there in all 3 cars. According to my butt dyno on the street, both M3C and Supra feel similar in acceleration, with M3C slightly ahead and with a more Naturally Aspirated power delivery. Again, according to the butt dyno on the street, Evora GT feels slower than the Supra. This could be because Evora GT has NA power delivery feel, while Supra is more of a turbo punch type delivery. Plus the B58 in Supra produces a lot more hp/tq than it's published numbers. So while the Evora GT isn't that much slower, it's NA delivery makes it feel slower when compared to BMW turbo engines.

I expect Emira to be slightly slower than the Evora GT and that's OK for me. If acceleration is your jam, then you may be disappointed with Emira V6 (but not the entire car). I have been there and done that, and now I prefer a more old school driving experience that is very hard to find in a new car. I get that experience with the Evora GT, and I expect 90% of that in the Emira.

Have I read that right, the latest Supra is quicker straight line than an Evora gt?? I've driven the latest supra and it is not a quick car (or particularly involving in any way tbh) and certainly didnt feel like it would live with my 981 gt4 so that's quite concerning


I've finally got around to watching the car group test, a test it had no business being in imo, and it came across disappointingly average.
It confirmed a few things I already thought.
This car is always going to be cursed with unrealistic expectations due to those damn good looks. I don't think it was just the media though, I think based on looks (and huge investment I guess) many of us, me included, thought this was a nailed on car of the year that would redefine sports cars sub 100k and blow everyone away....


It's just not that car, by no means a bad one and a solid left field contender but the reality is it just doesn't quite live up to expectations.


A small glimmer of hope for me is that Lotus has so spectacularly dropped the ball on the press launch sending out pre production cars (maybe they wanted that caveat to use to help lower expectations), wrong spec cars and generally not controlling the narrative (did they think they had such a good product they didn't need to?) that when production cars hit the tests it may claw some love back. I actually expect so.

 

[Lotustoronto]

Have I read that right, the latest Supra is quicker straight line than an Evora gt?? I've driven the latest supra and it is not a quick car (or particularly involving in any way tbh) and certainly didnt feel like it would live with my 981 gt4 so that's quite concerning


I've finally got around to watching the car group test, a test it had no business being in imo, and it came across disappointingly average.
It confirmed a few things I already thought.
This car is always going to be cursed with unrealistic expectations due to those damn good looks. I don't think it was just the media though, I think based on looks (and huge investment I guess) many of us, me included, thought this was a nailed on car of the year that would redefine sports cars sub 100k and blow everyone away....


It's just not that car, by no means a bad one and a solid left field contender but the reality is it just doesn't quite live up to expectations.


A small glimmer of hope for me is that Lotus has so spectacularly dropped the ball on the press launch sending out pre production cars (maybe they wanted that caveat to use to help lower expectations), wrong spec cars and generally not controlling the narrative (did they think they had such a good product they didn't need to?) that when production cars hit the tests it may claw some love back. I actually expect so.

Lotus is going through unprecedented change in the companies history. New owners, triple the production amount, moving to all electric, building worlds fastest hyper car, new factory, new employees, Direct sales to customers etc. It basically is a new startup almost. They could certainly do better in certain areas, but I am thankful Emira is using the older Lotus technology, it's the reason I am purchasing one. I know I am getting a sports car that has decades of improvements built into it's design, that has tremoundous value.

I think once the customer vehicles come out they will be better than the pre-prod review cars. I have my opinions that they have been fine tweaking certain areas, reviewing certain parts to ensure they are perfect. They want a car the has an excellent fit and finish, again something I happy about. Even if some of these parts have been re-worked and re-engineered. I believe this is the main reason we have seen an 8 month delay in a final car being assembled. (and still not assembled....I don't know if dealer DEMO's are 100% customer spec....tricky)

This is going to be a fantastic Lotus! The last ICE vehicle and the one that ties old Lotus too new. They know how important this car is. I am personally very excited to be ordering one. Although I have time before my allocation comes up, and I am undecided if I will order the base or push the deposit to the V6 Final (most Likely), I am certainly still going to own the Emira. No question. So despite a lot of negative comments, from reviewers, or forum members myself included, this will be one of the best Lotus cars to be ever built....eventually.

 

[emiraspain]

This is like an episode at the end of scooby doo when they pull the mask off emiraspain and it turns out it’s Jethro.

ok it was funny, but 10 likes and laughs, off the back of my hard work... come on!... haha

 

[TomE]

Have I read that right, the latest Supra is quicker straight line than an Evora gt?? I've driven the latest supra and it is not a quick car (or particularly involving in any way tbh) and certainly didnt feel like it would live with my 981 gt4 so that's quite concerning


I've finally got around to watching the car group test, a test it had no business being in imo, and it came across disappointingly average.
It confirmed a few things I already thought.
This car is always going to be cursed with unrealistic expectations due to those damn good looks. I don't think it was just the media though, I think based on looks (and huge investment I guess) many of us, me included, thought this was a nailed on car of the year that would redefine sports cars sub 100k and blow everyone away....


It's just not that car, by no means a bad one and a solid left field contender but the reality is it just doesn't quite live up to expectations.


A small glimmer of hope for me is that Lotus has so spectacularly dropped the ball on the press launch sending out pre production cars (maybe they wanted that caveat to use to help lower expectations), wrong spec cars and generally not controlling the narrative (did they think they had such a good product they didn't need to?) that when production cars hit the tests it may claw some love back. I actually expect so.

Lotus is going through unprecedented change in the companies history. New owners, triple the production amount, moving to all electric, building worlds fastest hyper car, new factory, new employees, Direct sales to customers etc. It basically is a new startup almost. They could certainly do better in certain areas, but I am thankful Emira is using the older Lotus technology, it's the reason I am purchasing one. I know I am getting a sports car that has decades of improvements built into it's design, that has tremoundous value.

I think once the customer vehicles come out they will be better than the pre-prod review cars. I have my opinions that they have been fine tweaking certain areas, reviewing certain parts to ensure they are perfect. They want a car the has an excellent fit and finish, again something I happy about. Even if some of these parts have been re-worked and re-engineered. I believe this is the main reason we have seen an 8 month delay in a final car being assembled. (and still not assembled....I don't know if dealer DEMO's are 100% customer spec....tricky)

This is going to be a fantastic Lotus! The last ICE vehicle and the one that ties old Lotus too new. They know how important this car is. I am personally very excited to be ordering one. Although I have time before my allocation comes up, and I am undecided if I will order the base or push the deposit to the V6 Final (most Likely), I am certainly still going to own the Emira. No question. So despite a lot of negative comments, from reviewers, or forum members myself included, this will be one of the best Lotus cars to be ever built....eventually.

The curse of the weight of expectations ... and a long wait.

Firstly, it looks like a supercar. This has helped bring in a lot of potential new customers. But it's also created an expectation with customers, current Lotus owners and journalists that it performs like a junior supercar. Perhaps an unrealistic expectation, but the "Lotus the plucky underdog might just pull this off" mindset is in play.

Secondly, people think it should move the game on significantly from the Evora. The Elise and Evora showed what talented, ingenious people could do with a tiny budget and a short timeframe (27 months from funding approval to launch for Evora). Both cars wowed the press and customers, set new standards and won awards. With Emira we saw Geely bring huge extra cash investment, new hires, better facilities and access to cross-group expertise and parts and suppliers. We were excited the development team had a clear shot at designing the best ever Lotus. A lot of evidence pointed to that, with a major evolution of the Evora chassis to take account of 12 years of learning, open access to every Geely team and part but no requirement to use any, free choice of the second engine, free choice of tyre partner etc etc. We even had Gavan enthusing about it being "the Evora dialled up to 11".

But that step change in performance many hoped for isn't what we're seeing in reviews and customer feedback. It's a great drivers car, but it seems to be Evora-ish not Evora-plus. Slightly down on power, slightly down on redline, slightly higher on emissions, slightly less raucous on exhaust noise, slightly less sure-footed in some scenarios.

The big step changes have clearly been in exterior styling, interior design and technology, daily usability, quality (design, build, reliability) and meeting an attractive price point. I know and have huge respect for the project team, but it feels like the performance factor has only been taken as far as "good enough and still Lotus" rather than "wow, that's what Lotus can achieve with major backing from a new owner".

This seems to be the same hint of expectations not being met that we're seeing in some of the reviews.

It'll be a great car and the best car Lotus has ever built. Looking forward to a proper test drive and hoping I'm proved wrong about the expectation-reality gap.