USA/Canada Delivery Thread

[4MIR3]

Mind me asking how you know this?

I track Porsche cars as well... each document has an approval date. Subtract the time... roughly 10-14 days give or take. If nothing post within the next 10 days, I would say it is just a bad rumor.

 

[CHEESE]

So, it'll now be a contest between the EPA and NHTSA approval. Which agency will delay us the longest?

The holier-than-thou California.

 

[DerTheDer]

If its coming from a dealear, im going to say its a rumour. Need something official.

 

[kitkat]

If its coming from a dealear, im going to say its a rumour. Need something official.

Yup, I don’t believe anything dealers say. They’ll say anything to get things moving along. The majority of your dealings are also going to be with salesmen who legitimately barely know anything beyond a press release. And if any dealership salesmen are here reading this — it’s not meant as a put down — your job isn’t scouring the Internet for Lotus details it’s selling cars — any of us expecting you to know more is silly.

 

[Hell4Leather]

I track Porsche cars as well... each document has an approval date. Subtract the time... roughly 10-14 days give or take. If nothing post within the next 10 days, I would say it is just a bad rumor.

For anyone that doesn’t have it:

Basic Search | Document Index System | US EPA

dis.epa.gov

 

[kin]

The holier-than-thou California.

Look I get it sucks to have to wait longer cause of regulations, but everybody commenting on how California is "holier-than-thou" does not understand what the smog was like in LA back in the day, nor how many health problems the smog caused people and children here.

What happened to having compassion for our fellow man?

 

[981KMAN]

No problem with what Calif wants to do to its own..... It's when they defacto force it on everyone else that creates the rub. Lots of ways to solve Auto Pollution Problems that don't impact others.

What happened to Californians having compassion for those in other states?

 

[kin]

No problem with what Calif wants to do to its own..... It's when they defacto force it on everyone else that creates the rub. Lots of ways to solve Auto Pollution Problems that don't impact others.

What happened to Californians having compassion for those in other states?

They didn't force it on everyone else.

Read into why manufacturers do it.

 

[kitkat]

If Lotus can’t figure out how to pass emissions in either EPA or California — Lotus’s shortcomings are to blame. Do you see all the crazy huge power big liter v8s still getting regulatory approval and making it to mass market?

This is purely a Lotus problem.

 

[Porter]

They didn't force it on everyone else.

Read into why manufacturers do it.

I mean, they absolutely did. I'm a strong environmentalist too, but we have to be honest about what California lawmakers were attempting to do when they created CARB. They tried to usurp regulatory power over US automobile standards from the Federal government, and knew they were fracturing the US auto market by doing so.

EPA already had similar regulatory change coming, but California jumped the gun to accrue market power to themselves, and it created regulatory chaos. In many cases the manufacturers had to make unique versions for the California market, driving costs up sharply. This has been a major contributor to the rise in new car costs in the US market, more than almost any other single issue.

And on top of that, this created BILLIONS of dollars in long term regulatory headaches at the Federal level, which our tax dollars had to pay for. And the Federal government has had to pass rules banning California from making any further unilateral emissions requirements on their own, in order to maintain a well regulated 50 state automotive market. It has taken about 15 years to normalize the regulations to achieve 50 state parity in the baseline, at massive cost and effort. If California had simply been willing to cooperate with the EPA and with other states these problems could have been avoided. And the expansion of a massive state agency (CARB) could have been avoided.

 

[morphious]

Look I get it sucks to have to wait longer cause of regulations, but everybody commenting on how California is "holier-than-thou" does not understand what the smog was like in LA back in the day, nor how many health problems the smog caused people and children here.

What happened to having compassion for our fellow man?

Bwahahahahaha. Born and raised 50 plus years, California SUCKS!!! If anywhere else in the US had So Cal weather, this place wouldn't be so expensive.

 

[kin]

I mean, they absolutely did. I'm a strong environmentalist too, but we have to be honest about what California lawmakers were attempting to do when they created CARB. They tried to usurp regulatory power over US automobile standards from the Federal government, and knew they were fracturing the US auto market by doing so.

EPA already had similar regulatory change coming, but California jumped the gun to accrue market power to themselves, and it created regulatory chaos. In many cases the manufacturers had to make unique versions for the California market, driving costs up sharply. This has been a major contributor to the rise in new car costs in the US market, more than almost any other single issue.

And on top of that, this created BILLIONS of dollars in long term regulatory headaches at the Federal level, which our tax dollars had to pay for. And the Federal government has had to pass rules banning California from making any further unilateral emissions requirements on their own, in order to maintain a well regulated 50 state automotive market. It has taken about 15 years to normalize the regulations to achieve 50 state parity in the baseline, at massive cost and effort. If California had simply been willing to cooperate with the EPA and with other states these problems could have been avoided. And the expansion of a massive state agency (CARB) could have been avoided.

1. "They tried to usurp regulatory power over US automobile standards from the Federal government..."
   • Fact: The Federal Clean Air Act grants California the authority to seek a waiver from the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) to implement its own vehicle emission standards, due to the state's unique air quality challenges. Other states can choose to adopt either the federal standards or California's standards. This means that CARB's regulations aren't necessarily about "usurping" power; rather, they're using an authority granted to them by federal law.
2. "EPA already had similar regulatory change coming, but California jumped the gun..."
   • Context: It's true that at times California has acted before the federal government. However, California's early actions, particularly in the 1960s and 1970s, were often in response to acute local air quality problems, notably smog in Los Angeles. This isn't necessarily about gaining "market power" but addressing specific regional environmental challenges.
3. "...manufacturers had to make unique versions for the California market, driving costs up sharply."
   • Fact: There have been instances where automakers produced California-specific vehicles to comply with the state's stricter emission standards. However, the exact impact on car prices is multifaceted, with factors like technology, safety standards, and global market dynamics also influencing vehicle costs.
4. "...Federal government has had to pass rules banning California from making any further unilateral emissions requirements..."
   • Context: Under the Trump administration, there were efforts to revoke California's waiver authority and prevent the state from setting its own emissions standards. However, under the Biden administration, California's waiver authority was reinstated, recognizing the state's role in leading emissions reductions.
5. "It has taken about 15 years to normalize the regulations to achieve 50 state parity..."
   • Context: While there has been a push towards national harmonization, the claim about "15 years" is a bit vague without specifying which time period or specific regulations are being referenced.
6. "If California had simply been willing to cooperate with the EPA and with other states these problems could have been avoided."
   • Context: California has cooperated with the EPA in various instances. For example, during the Obama administration, California, the federal government, and automakers came to an agreement on nationwide fuel efficiency and greenhouse gas standards for vehicles.
7. "And the expansion of a massive state agency (CARB) could have been avoided."
   • Context: CARB's establishment and continued existence are largely in response to California's specific and often more severe air quality challenges, not just vehicle emissions. Its role extends beyond vehicles to various sources of pollution.

In summary, while the comment contains some elements grounded in fact, it also reflects a particular perspective and simplifies the complex interplay between state and federal regulations. As always, it's beneficial to approach such statements with a critical mind and cross-reference claims with reliable sources.

 

[kin]

No problem with what Calif wants to do to its own..... It's when they defacto force it on everyone else that creates the rub. Lots of ways to solve Auto Pollution Problems that don't impact others.

What happened to Californians having compassion for those in other states?

Context:

History of the California Air Resources Board (CARB):​

1. Beginnings in the 1960s:
   • 1963: The California Motor Vehicle Pollution Control Board was established, marking the state's first efforts to address vehicle emissions.
   • 1967: The Mulford-Carrell Act merged the Bureau of Air Sanitation and the Motor Vehicle Pollution Control Board, creating CARB.
2. Addressing Smog and Vehicle Emissions:
   • Throughout the 1970s and 1980s, CARB pioneered many efforts to address smog and vehicle emissions, introducing rigorous emission standards and programs such as the Low-Emission Vehicle (LEV) program.
3. 1988: CARB identifies the toxic air contaminants in diesel exhaust and begins to take steps to reduce them.
4. Global Warming Solutions Act:
   • 2006: California passed the Global Warming Solutions Act (AB 32), setting the framework for the state to significantly reduce greenhouse gas emissions by 2020. CARB has been instrumental in implementing and overseeing the provisions of this act.
5. Zero Emission Vehicle Mandate:
   • CARB has consistently pushed for more electric and zero-emission vehicles on the roads. They established the Zero Emission Vehicle (ZEV) program, which mandates automakers to produce a certain number of zero-emission vehicles.
6. Efforts Beyond Vehicles:
   • While CARB is perhaps best known for its vehicle emission regulations, it also oversees regulations and programs addressing a variety of other emission sources, including industrial processes, consumer products, and more.
7. Recent Years:
   • In more recent years, CARB has continued to set ambitious targets and regulations for emission reductions, pushing for cleaner vehicles, supporting renewable energy, and addressing environmental justice concerns in vulnerable communities.

Was CARB California's Attempt at Implementing Country-wide Regulations?​

Not directly, but it had significant implications for national standards:

1. Waiver Authority: The federal Clean Air Act allows California to seek a waiver from the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) to implement its own, stricter vehicle emission standards. Other states have the option to adopt either the federal standards or California's standards, which has meant that CARB's decisions often have ripple effects across the country.
2. Leadership Role: Due to its early and aggressive efforts to tackle air pollution, California (through CARB) has often been ahead of the federal government in setting emissions standards. This has indirectly influenced federal standards over time, as the technologies and strategies developed to meet California's standards often become more widely adopted.
3. Not Direct Legislation: While CARB's influence has been significant, it has not sought to directly impose its standards on other states. However, its leadership role and the availability of its standards as an option for other states means that CARB's decisions have often been adopted or influenced policies elsewhere.

In conclusion, while CARB was established to address California's specific air quality challenges, its innovative and stringent standards have often had broader impacts, influencing or setting the stage for wider adoption both in other states and at the federal level.

 

[kin]

No problem with what Calif wants to do to its own..... It's when they defacto force it on everyone else that creates the rub. Lots of ways to solve Auto Pollution Problems that don't impact others.

What happened to Californians having compassion for those in other states?

I'm not saying California doesn't have a ton of problems, and it's not some paradise. I'm not trying to say the left is right about everything - just look at how we've left so many people behind in SF and LA. I'm saying, for this specific topic, the air pollution issue was something that California needed to fix, and anybody who's lived in LA can attest to the situation being much better in current times than in the past.

 

[Hell4Leather]

I'm not saying California doesn't have a ton of problems, and it's not some paradise. I'm not trying to say the left is right about everything - just look at how we've left so many people behind in SF and LA. I'm saying, for this specific topic, the air pollution issue was something that California needed to fix, and anybody who's lived in LA can attest to the situation being much better in current times than in the past.

Fact: California is a pain in the ass. But,
Fact: California gave us “Bees are Fish” and that’s one of the best regulations I’ve ever seen

 

[KCMO68_510]

So we have two more weeks of this debate, huh?

 

[VL3X]

So we have two more weeks of this debate, huh?

No, let's end it now and move on please.

 

[eriegz]

Can we please keep this thread to just "US & Canada Deliveries"? That's really the only point of this thread. Not which US state is the greatest, not whether electric cars are good for the environment, not what spec you ordered, not how much your dealer is asking for a deposit, etc.

When I open this thread, I'm hoping to see updates on US & Canada deliveries. That's it.

 

[benjh1028]

I asked my dealer Friday about Fed approval and he said “I have no idea when” which I firmly believe and am okay with.

 

[DerTheDer]

Ill call my dealer tomorrow and try and get the scoop. There is a nice Qvale I want on BAT but dont want to buy this if the Emira is right around the corner.