USA/Canada Delivery Thread

[NicolasB]

That's pretty optimistic. I doubt they will deliver any announcements until a couple of weeks into 2024.

He just said December, you assumed he meant December '23

 

[Dr.JDK]

Fellas, I am fairly confident that the FE 1.0 cars will ship to the US soon this year. First batch of the FE1.0 should arrive at Port of Baltimore, if I am not mistaken. There are three separate obstacles, 1. emission Certification (CARB and EPA), and 2. production, 3. shipping.
For Ob. 1, its progress should not block the progress of Obs. 2 and 3 because previous lotus cars sat at the port while waiting for CARB certification.
We know from several sources that the US cars are in production, 1. a fellow forum member saw and confirmed with his own ears and eyes at the factory, 2. an email from Mr. Scott at a "L brand" factory in England (don't want to get you into troubles Scott, nobody should shoot a messenger).
For shipping, it is easy. There are so many ships from England to the East coast through the Atlantic. My dealer is in Seattle, WA so the car needs to be trucked across the continental US to Seattle, worst case scenario. How long it is going to take? maritime shipping is about 2 weeks, and truck is about a week, so 3 weeks, conservative estimation. Can the very first owners get the car before Christmas? not impossible. Can we see US production cars running on roads in the US in Spring 2024 (Jan - March 2024), I think highly likely).
My guess is I will take delivery before Feb 2024, as a August 2021 FE 1.0 Depositor.

 

[azlambo]

Fellas, I am fairly confident that the FE 1.0 cars will ship to the US soon this year. First batch of the FE1.0 should arrive at Port of Baltimore, if I am not mistaken. There are three separate obstacles, 1. emission Certification (CARB and EPA), and 2. production, 3. shipping.
For Ob. 1, its progress should not block the progress of Obs. 2 and 3 because previous lotus cars sat at the port while waiting for CARB certification.
We know from several sources that the US cars are in production, 1. a fellow forum member saw and confirmed with his own ears and eyes at the factory, 2. an email from Mr. Scott at a "L brand" factory in England (don't want to get you into troubles Scott, nobody should shoot a messenger).
For shipping, it is easy. There are so many ships from England to the East coast through the Atlantic. My dealer is in Seattle, WA so the car needs to be trucked across the continental US to Seattle, worst case scenario. How long it is going to take? maritime shipping is about 2 weeks, and truck is about a week, so 3 weeks, conservative estimation. Can the very first owners get the car before Christmas? not impossible. Can we see US production cars running on roads in the US in Spring 2024 (Jan - March 2024), I think highly likely).
My guess is I will take delivery before Feb 2024, as an August 2021 FE 1.0 Depositor.

Hope you’re right! They must be pretty confident on certification for that to happen. Also, no one has seen U.S. cars being “punched out” in quantity. Would take 5 or 6 weeks to get all FE 1.0’s out of there.

 

[benjh1028]

If it happens, I'm betting it is truly just a handful of cars - maybe ten - just so Lotus can say "told you so." But I'm willing to bet that we don't see a steady flow of cars into the U.S. until spring. Not terrible if it happens.

 

[Nova]

Fellas, I am fairly confident that the FE 1.0 cars will ship to the US soon this year. First batch of the FE1.0 should arrive at Port of Baltimore, if I am not mistaken. There are three separate obstacles, 1. emission Certification (CARB and EPA), and 2. production, 3. shipping.
For Ob. 1, its progress should not block the progress of Obs. 2 and 3 because previous lotus cars sat at the port while waiting for CARB certification.
We know from several sources that the US cars are in production, 1. a fellow forum member saw and confirmed with his own ears and eyes at the factory, 2. an email from Mr. Scott at a "L brand" factory in England (don't want to get you into troubles Scott, nobody should shoot a messenger).
For shipping, it is easy. There are so many ships from England to the East coast through the Atlantic. My dealer is in Seattle, WA so the car needs to be trucked across the continental US to Seattle, worst case scenario. How long it is going to take? maritime shipping is about 2 weeks, and truck is about a week, so 3 weeks, conservative estimation. Can the very first owners get the car before Christmas? not impossible. Can we see US production cars running on roads in the US in Spring 2024 (Jan - March 2024), I think highly likely).
My guess is I will take delivery before Feb 2024, as a August 2021 FE 1.0 Depositor.

It provides zero benefit to Lotus to produce the cars prior to receiving final US regulatory approval.

None.

They don't make more money from additional US sales - demand still outstrips available supply for the foreseeable future. Once US cars hit the road, there will be *additional* demand, not less. The demand situation is on a relatively slow rate of decay. So long as they keep up with the low-information modus operandi, and avoid generating wild mood swings among the depositors, the decay will remain slow.

They don't save costs from producing US cars before getting US certs. In fact, the opposite happens since the inventory becomes non-performing as soon as they are produced since they cannot be sold. If shipped to be warehoused in Baltimore, they incur additional storage, maintenance, and PDI-related costs.

Aside from the benefit of cost savings and far simpler logistics by waiting for certifications prior to the start of production, Lotus also stands to gain any additional product improvements in terms of parts, software, and assembly that may occur in the meantime. This translates into reduced customer complaints and reduced costs for warranty parts/service.

Unless Lotus already has the certifications in hand and we can't yet see them due to the well-established efficiency of US government bureaucrats, I have less than 10% confidence that Lotus will produce/ship cars in meaningful numbers to the US by the end of 2024.

 

[Porter]

I 100% agree with Nova.

 

[Lotustoronto]

Who here think the American regulators stripped down an Emira to check if 55% + of the parts are sourced by china / Chinese companies? Which would then result in a massive tariff. We know the Eletre and Emeya will be getting that Tarrif, perhaps they assume all of Lotus Cars should as well?

For some reason I would not be surprised, given the political climate at the moment.

** End of the day, as long as 55% components of the car are made in UK, then it is a British Car no matter what

 

[Maurice R]

Who here think the American regulators stripped down an Emira to check if 55% + of the parts are sourced by china / Chinese companies? Which would then result in a massive tariff. We know the Eletre and Emeya will be getting that Tarrif, perhaps they assume all of Lotus Cars should as well?

For some reason I would not be surprised, given the political climate at the moment.

** End of the day, as long as 55% components of the car are made in UK, then it is a British Car no matter what

It’s a British car not a Chinese car
The car is fully manufactured in Britain so the exorbitant tariffs you are talking about do not apply.
Just for argument sake. If that were the case lotus would have included that in the price of the car

 

[Dr.JDK]

It provides zero benefit to Lotus to produce the cars prior to receiving final US regulatory approval.

None.

They don't make more money from additional US sales - demand still outstrips available supply for the foreseeable future. Once US cars hit the road, there will be *additional* demand, not less. The demand situation is on a relatively slow rate of decay. So long as they keep up with the low-information modus operandi, and avoid generating wild mood swings among the depositors, the decay will remain slow.

They don't save costs from producing US cars before getting US certs. In fact, the opposite happens since the inventory becomes non-performing as soon as they are produced since they cannot be sold. If shipped to be warehoused in Baltimore, they incur additional storage, maintenance, and PDI-related costs.

Aside from the benefit of cost savings and far simpler logistics by waiting for certifications prior to the start of production, Lotus also stands to gain any additional product improvements in terms of parts, software, and assembly that may occur in the meantime. This translates into reduced customer complaints and reduced costs for warranty parts/service.

Unless Lotus already has the certifications in hand and we can't yet see them due to the well-established efficiency of US government bureaucrats, I have less than 10% confidence that Lotus will produce/ship cars in meaningful numbers to the US by the end of 2024.

I think some of the points makes sense, however, you forgot one thing, neither lotus nor dealers make money buy not selling the car. The eager to push sales and generate positive cash flow trumps artificial demand hype, cost saving, logistics, etc. Car companies and dealers sale cars for a living. How many deposits can support a sales's monthly wage? Many people got calls to spec their FE 2.0 V6 or FE i4 in the recent months in the US. Lotus factory will not take order if they are not planning to produce those cars soon from a planning perspective.
Lotus is producing 40 cars a day, 4 days a week, that is 640 cars a month. Tell me where other than the US/CAN market can take that capacity? UK already has used emiras listed on carwow/autotrader. Europe, Japan, China, all has hundreds of cars delivered to them before Sep/October this year. China, one of the biggest Emira market, already has stock cars sitting at dealers indicating a saturation.
Another benefit of putting cars at US port is a transfer of liability/responsibility. Lotus could say it is not me that further delays your car, it is CARB you should be angry at.

 

[benjh1028]

I think some of the points makes sense, however, you forgot one thing, neither lotus nor dealers make money buy not selling the car. The eager to push sales and generate positive cash flow trumps artificial demand hype, cost saving, logistics, etc. Car companies and dealers sale cars for a living. How many deposits can support a sales's monthly wage? Many people got calls to spec their FE 2.0 V6 or FE i4 in the recent months in the US. Lotus factory will not take order if they are not planning to produce those cars soon from a planning perspective.
Lotus is producing 40 cars a day, 4 days a week, that is 640 cars a month. Tell me where other than the US/CAN market can take that capacity? UK already has used emiras listed on carwow/autotrader. Europe, Japan, China, all has hundreds of cars delivered to them before Sep/October this year. China, one of the biggest Emira market, already has stock cars sitting at dealers indicating a saturation.
Another benefit of putting cars at US port is a transfer of liability/responsibility. Lotus could say it is not me that further delays your car, it is CARB you should be angry at.

I think there are several years worth of data/examples on this forum that supports the opposite of the sentence (bold) above.

Additionally, as totally mismanaged as this process has been, I don't think even Lotus would dare make the mistake of attempting to pass responsibility for delays onto a third party. If they tell me "it's the governments fault" my question to them will be "Are you f-ing kidding me?" as I request my deposit back while swinging a sledgehammer.

 

[Lotustoronto]

It’s a British car not a Chinese car
The car is fully manufactured in Britain so the exorbitant tariffs you are talking about do not apply.
Just for argument sake. If that were the case lotus would have included that in the price of the car

Oh I’m in agreement it’s a British car, just wondering if American regulators are giving Lotus and overly hard time because of Chinese ownership. I know it’s a bit conspiracy theorist lol, but they had a long time to pass US emissions.

 

[Nova]

I think some of the points makes sense, however, you forgot one thing, neither lotus nor dealers make money buy not selling the car. The eager to push sales and generate positive cash flow trumps artificial demand hype, cost saving, logistics, etc. Car companies and dealers sale cars for a living. How many deposits can support a sales's monthly wage? Many people got calls to spec their FE 2.0 V6 or FE i4 in the recent months in the US. Lotus factory will not take order if they are not planning to produce those cars soon from a planning perspective.
Lotus is producing 40 cars a day, 4 days a week, that is 640 cars a month. Tell me where other than the US/CAN market can take that capacity? UK already has used emiras listed on carwow/autotrader. Europe, Japan, China, all has hundreds of cars delivered to them before Sep/October this year. China, one of the biggest Emira market, already has stock cars sitting at dealers indicating a saturation.
Another benefit of putting cars at US port is a transfer of liability/responsibility. Lotus could say it is not me that further delays your car, it is CARB you should be angry at.

But how does Lotus make money selling a car that they are not legally allowed to sell? And that's precisely my point - they can't sell any of these cars, so they can't make any money, which is why they are likely not building a meaningful number of US cars yet.

Producing cars to be held in a warehouse is not the same as selling cars. That activity does not make Lotus any money, nor does it make the dealers any money. In fact, it *costs* Lotus money as I already explained in my previous post. One may argue "Well, they can get a jump start on the production so that there will be more cars available for sale in the US." However, Lotus is production-limited right now in terms of worldwide demand and for the foreseeable future so producing extra cars for the US brings them no additional sales volume - they don't have excess production capacity. Let's be reminded that as of now, Lotus has had *no problems* allocating all of its production capacity to existing non-US demand, with non-US customers persistently pestering them for a production update.

The US dealers have very little say on production volume/allocation of Lotus so their opinions on the matter are worth very little.

 

[Nova]

Oh I’m in agreement it’s a British car, just wondering if American regulators are giving Lotus and overly hard time because of Chinese ownership. I know it’s a bit conspiracy theorist lol, but they had a long time to pass US emissions.

It depends...

Some US bureaucracies are casefile-based. If your case get assigned to an easy-going reviewer, your paperwork sails through as long as there are no obvious issues. If you get a strict reviewer who takes their job *VERY* seriously, they may ask for more data, more details, more justifications, be very stringent in the interpretation of requirements, and generally not give up much whenever there is something left up to their discretion. When we deal with agencies like that, it's the luck of the draw. I don't know if CARB/EPA/NHTSA are such agencies - I have never dealt with them.

 

[tvs_1320]

But how does Lotus make money selling a car that they are not legally allowed to sell? And that's precisely my point - they can't sell any of these cars, so they can't make any money, which is why they are likely not building a meaningful number of US cars yet.

Any chance the cars seen in the factory to date are for dealer demos? They may be gambling the current spec can be registered when EPA/CARB cert comes through with a relatively low number of cars vs the customer FE1/FE2 batch.

Does Lotus USA buy the cars from Lotus and then sell to the dealers who sell to customers, or is this more direct than other car companies?

 

[azlambo]

Any chance the cars seen in the factory to date are for dealer demos? They may be gambling the current spec can be registered when EPA/CARB cert comes through with a relatively low number of cars vs the customer FE1/FE2 batch.

Does Lotus USA buy the cars from Lotus and then sell to the dealers who sell to customers, or is this more direct than other car companies?

I will be test driving a car at my dealer this coming Saturday. I will see if it is a U.S. spec car.

 

[silent cilantro]

I will be test driving a car at my dealer this coming Saturday. I will see if it is a U.S. spec car.

It won't be

 

[Nova]

Any chance the cars seen in the factory to date are for dealer demos? They may be gambling the current spec can be registered when EPA/CARB cert comes through with a relatively low number of cars vs the customer FE1/FE2 batch.

Does Lotus USA buy the cars from Lotus and then sell to the dealers who sell to customers, or is this more direct than other car companies?

I really doubt it. They have non-US spec cars for people to try. Traditional dealer demos could be sold to end customers so it should just be a normal production car.

 

[Porter]

I really doubt it. They have non-US spec cars for people to try. Traditional dealer demos could be sold to end customers so it should just be a normal production car.

For it to be legally owned and used by the dealer it would absolutely have to be a regular production car. Otherwise every single one would need manufacturer plates, and a formal date declared to the government for when it's being taken back out of the US.

 

[DerTheDer]

I just woke up from a coma from 2021. There are no Emiras yet?!?! WTF! I was able to find an Emira toy car at the Party Store today which was cool. Currently in the process of offloading some of my vehicles. I plan on retiring down south sooner rather than later. I have bad migraines brought on due to bright lights (Brights kill me) and the sun. Just driving home from work every day is a chore now. Shame I didn't have these few years to enjoy the Emira. Maybe I will still be able to enjoy it before i decide to sell it as well.

If anyone in the States is interested in an Elise (Clean Title) or Ferrari California (Clean Title + History) please let me know.

 

[robrmon]

Fellas, I am fairly confident that the FE 1.0 cars will ship to the US soon this year. First batch of the FE1.0 should arrive at Port of Baltimore, if I am not mistaken. There are three separate obstacles, 1. emission Certification (CARB and EPA), and 2. production, 3. shipping.
For Ob. 1, its progress should not block the progress of Obs. 2 and 3 because previous lotus cars sat at the port while waiting for CARB certification.
We know from several sources that the US cars are in production, 1. a fellow forum member saw and confirmed with his own ears and eyes at the factory, 2. an email from Mr. Scott at a "L brand" factory in England (don't want to get you into troubles Scott, nobody should shoot a messenger).
For shipping, it is easy. There are so many ships from England to the East coast through the Atlantic. My dealer is in Seattle, WA so the car needs to be trucked across the continental US to Seattle, worst case scenario. How long it is going to take? maritime shipping is about 2 weeks, and truck is about a week, so 3 weeks, conservative estimation. Can the very first owners get the car before Christmas? not impossible. Can we see US production cars running on roads in the US in Spring 2024 (Jan - March 2024), I think highly likely).
My guess is I will take delivery before Feb 2024, as an August 2021 FE 1.0 Depositor.

I’m with you, I’d be surprised if I don’t have a car in 2023. Quite frankly I don’t care if it’s a few months later as I won’t use it until the spring. But with that said, I’ll put my neck on the line and say I’ll have one this year. I’ll revisit this post in a couple of months.

And just for a frame of reference, I’m usually a very pessimistic person.