USA/Canada Delivery Thread

[2BIG2FAIL]

To all waiting on an Emira... I mean no disrespect, yet we need to look at the situation......

CARB is not going to Approve the Emira until Lotus has provided sufficient guarantees that it will sell enough EV's in California to offset the emissions of the Emira. Now, Lotus has announced the Eletre and Emeya, yet no pricing and no commitment on availability. I think this is the hold-up with CARB. They want more than just Lotus's plans as these EV's are made in China and come with a heavy 25% US Import Duty and NO EV purchase tax incentive.

I hope I am wrong and CARB gives approval now, yet I have strong doubts given the situation.

I am speaking without much knowledge, but I don't understand why Lotus couldn't get this done with the Emira fleet alone. Not every brand has EVs to offset emissions, but they seem to get CARB done. Additionally, it's not like Lotus is selling some huge-displacement V8. Why is it such an issue for Lotus and not other brands?

 

[Dr.JDK]

To all waiting on an Emira... I mean no disrespect, yet we need to look at the situation......

CARB is not going to Approve the Emira until Lotus has provided sufficient guarantees that it will sell enough EV's in California to offset the emissions of the Emira. Now, Lotus has announced the Eletre and Emeya, yet no pricing and no commitment on availability. I think this is the hold-up with CARB. They want more than just Lotus's plans as these EV's are made in China and come with a heavy 25% US Import Duty and NO EV purchase tax incentive.

I hope I am wrong and CARB gives approval now, yet I have strong doubts given the situation.

I don't think it is the case. If what you said is true. Ferrari cannot sell any of those cars because no EV in their fleet at all.

 

[Maurice R]

To all waiting on an Emira... I mean no disrespect, yet we need to look at the situation......

CARB is not going to Approve the Emira until Lotus has provided sufficient guarantees that it will sell enough EV's in California to offset the emissions of the Emira. Now, Lotus has announced the Eletre and Emeya, yet no pricing and no commitment on availability. I think this is the hold-up with CARB. They want more than just Lotus's plans as these EV's are made in China and come with a heavy 25% US Import Duty and NO EV purchase tax incentive.

I hope I am wrong and CARB gives approval now, yet I have strong doubts given the situation.

Given all the scale Emira models sold in NA can’t they be counted in amount that are here

 

[Lotustoronto]

I don't think it is the case. If what you said is true. Ferrari cannot sell any of those cars because no EV in their fleet at all.

wrong.... Emira V6 = 259g/KM -- Ferrari 296 = 149g/km

Ferrari Hybrids Accounted for 43 Percent of Sales in Q2 2023

Ferrari sold 3392 cars in the second quarter of 2023, with 1458 of those being hybrids.

www.roadandtrack.com

Also a good read - it seems without EV sales, Lotus needs to purchase EV credits from another auto manufacturer (Tesla?)... I am sure Ferrari / lambo / Aston purchase additional credits and a big reason why their cars prices are seemingly in another level compared to Emira. Unless Lotus can show Eletre sales, it may be what they are waiting for.

What are CARB states, ZEV states and 'smile' states? Autoweek explains

CARB states ironically have fewer carburetors than non-CARB states

www.autoweek.com

 

[Porter]

I am speaking without much knowledge, but I don't understand why Lotus couldn't get this done with the Emira fleet alone. Not every brand has EVs to offset emissions, but they seem to get CARB done. Additionally, it's not like Lotus is selling some huge-displacement V8. Why is it such an issue for Lotus and not other brands?

I don't think it is the case. If what you said is true. Ferrari cannot sell any of those cars because no EV in their fleet at all.

Its actually the same answer for both of you. Emissions "fleet averaging" occurs across direct ownership business units, not just single brand. So Ferrari is offset by Fiat, for example, even after the partial divestiture. Lamborghini is offset by VW.

Lotus is in a weird situation because they aren't owned by another car brand that does business in the US market. Volvo doesn't count because they are a separate investment of Geely, they don't act as either a parent company or as a peer brand within a single corporation. Lynk &Co would probably qualify, but they aren't sold in the US. So Lotus is "on their own" for purposes of emissions regulations.

 

[981KMAN]

Geely (Lotus), probably does not want to "buy" anything from Tesla..... So no EV emission credits for the Emira in NA. Thus my thoughts that the Emira roll out in NA is being delayed until the Eletre or Emeya are being sold.... which may be a while...

Possibly sales in the other 37 states that do not follow CARB ??..... assuming that the Emira has (will) receive EPA approval.

 

[2BIG2FAIL]

Its actually the same answer for both of you. Emissions "fleet averaging" occurs across direct ownership business units, not just single brand. So Ferrari is offset by Fiat, for example, even after the partial divestiture. Lamborghini is offset by VW.

Lotus is in a weird situation because they aren't owned by another car brand that does business in the US market. Volvo doesn't count because they are a separate investment of Geely, they don't act as either a parent company or as a peer brand within a single corporation. Lynk &Co would probably qualify, but they aren't sold in the US. So Lotus is "on their own" for purposes of emissions regulations.

Interesting. I am still not sure I understand the distinction between the structure of Geely / Lotus / Volvo and the other brands cited. Can you clarify what is meant by "direct ownership business units"?

 

[Lotustoronto]

Interesting. I am still not sure I understand the distinction between the structure of Geely / Lotus / Volvo and the other brands cited. Can you clarify what is meant by "direct ownership business units"?

Perhaps Volvo / Polestar would sell some EV credits to Lotus? And swap them back once Eletre sales happen. I am sure there is a work around for this internally.

 

[410 JPS Fan]

Interesting. I am still not sure I understand the distinction between the structure of Geely / Lotus / Volvo and the other brands cited. Can you clarify what is meant by "direct ownership business units"?

Lotus cars north America is it's own company that is owned by lotus cars UK. (Ignoring the crazy email about new holding companies recently).

Lotus cars USA has an average fleet emissions it needs to meet. It can do that by selling EVs and gasoline or by buying EV credits on the California EV credit market .

Lotus cars USA buys EV credits to make it's fleet average compliant or faces fines that are larger than the compliance.

 

[azlambo]

Why doesn’t Lotus just tell us what’s going on??? This speculation stuff is killin’ me!

 

[Porter]

Why doesn’t Lotus just tell us what’s going on??? This speculation stuff is killin’ me!

 

[WarriorHockey2266]

Why doesn’t Lotus just tell us what’s going on??? This speculation stuff is killin’ me!

If it’s an emissions thing like above they probably don’t know. Not because of just the time line because there is probably a list of crappy options and even the least crappy option will be bad for NA buyers.

-Buying credits -> Increases car costs that already went up considerably.
-Have to wait for Eletre -> Probably going to take a bit with no good time frame.
- Actual problem with emission-> May take a bit to resolve and lose more on easy car.

Who knows what else could be the situation. None of those will be a good answer anyone so radio silence is easier.

My main concern is number 2&3 with what has happened recently. Let’s just initially go under the assumption that they know what they are doing… yes stretch at this point I know. My wife has an FE 2.0 coming. She put her config in last month I think. Her delivery date being May/June 2024. In business terms we are not far away from summer, and in theory based on what we know they aren’t on track for December delieveries.

You would have to actually try to screw this up on scheduling to think you’re good for June next year and have that blown up within a month of asking for more configurations. So I’m much more concerned that something is jacked on the US side that they are reacting too, then this just being a silly delay.

It doesn’t really matter for us we’ll get it when we get it, even if that is when my 5 year old is old enough to drive which might still be pushing it.

 

[Zardoz]

Lotus cars north America is it's own company that is owned by lotus cars UK. (Ignoring the crazy email about new holding companies recently).

Lotus cars USA has an average fleet emissions it needs to meet. It can do that by selling EVs and gasoline or by buying EV credits on the California EV credit market .

Lotus cars USA buys EV credits to make it's fleet average compliant or faces fines that are larger than the compliance.

Very confusing. Morgan, McLaren, Pagani, Koenigsegg, & all other small volume manufacturers are buying credits? Sounds unlikely. Morgan can get their shit together but Lotus cannot?

 

[DerTheDer]

Very confusing. Morgan, McLaren, Pagani, Koenigsegg, & all other small volume manufacturers are buying credits? Sounds unlikely. Morgan can get their shit together but Lotus cannot?

Lotus has show for the last few years that they infact cannot get their shit together.

 

[kitkat]

Keep in mind this is the internet, a bunch of Emira regulatory sleuths probably don't know what they're talking about. Let Lotus handle their emissions concerns -- you just have to be patient.

 

[Maurice R]

Just heard NA cars have been loaded on a ship called Wishful Thinking
Arriving at Port Of Houston

 

[benjh1028]

Why doesn’t Lotus just tell us what’s going on??? This speculation stuff is killin’ me!

There's a thread somewhere on this forum that addresses this.

 

[410 JPS Fan]

Very confusing. Morgan, McLaren, Pagani, Koenigsegg, & all other small volume manufacturers are buying credits? Sounds unlikely. Morgan can get their shit together but Lotus cannot?

They sell motorcycles, haven't seen plus 4 real car yet here again

 

[981KMAN]

So Auto manufacturers with Sales of less than 5000 vehicles per year can apply for an EPA Waiver. Lotus had one for their previous vehicles.

From the EPA website;

EPA’s regulations established as part of the 2012 Light-duty Greenhouse Gas program allow manufacturers with annual U.S. sales of less than 5,000 vehicles per year to apply for alternative GHG standards. EPA included the small volume manufacturer provisions in the regulations in recognition of the potential difficulty very small volume manufacturers with limited product lines may have meeting the primary program standards. Four small volume manufacturers applied for and are receiving alternative standards: Aston Martin, Ferrari, Lotus and McLaren. The alternative standards in these determinations cover model years 2017-2021.

So with Emira sales and other future cars, Lotus will no longer qualify as a "Small Volume Manufacturer".... Thus the Emira must pass current Tier 3 EPA emission standards.

 

[trackday14]

So Auto manufacturers with Sales of less than 5000 vehicles per year can apply for an EPA Waiver. Lotus had one for their previous vehicles.

From the EPA website;

EPA’s regulations established as part of the 2012 Light-duty Greenhouse Gas program allow manufacturers with annual U.S. sales of less than 5,000 vehicles per year to apply for alternative GHG standards. EPA included the small volume manufacturer provisions in the regulations in recognition of the potential difficulty very small volume manufacturers with limited product lines may have meeting the primary program standards. Four small volume manufacturers applied for and are receiving alternative standards: Aston Martin, Ferrari, Lotus and McLaren. The alternative standards in these determinations cover model years 2017-2021.

So with Emira sales and other future cars, Lotus will no longer qualify as a "Small Volume Manufacturer".... Thus the Emira must pass current Tier 3 EPA emission standards.

Regardless, CARB is still an issue…