USA/Canada Delivery Thread

[kitkat]

Seeing as this is the last Lotus I'll ever buy, I would care less if they black listed me...Have you seen the vehicles (Emira not counting) they are putting out? Ugly.

Do they even have the capability of creating, maintaining, and enforcing a blacklist?

 

[DerTheDer]

Lotus of Naples has such a clause in their agreement.

Can post clause? Would be interesting to see.

 

[farrbar]

Lotus of Naples has such a clause in their agreement.

Did Naples share this with you as part of the deposit paperwork?

I understand why dealers do this, my issue with the Porsche dealer was that they did not disclose this at the time of the original negotiation and placement of a non-refundable deposit. The Porsche dealer (and also my Lotus dealer) asked for Additional Dealer Markup, but when I got up to walk out, both agreed to MSRP. If I had agreed to ADM, and then they inform me about this for many months, I'm not sure I would agreed to sign.

For dealers selling hard to get cars at MSRP, makes sense - just be upfront about it. If the dealer is charging ADM then I'm not sure they should be entitled to the optionality that comes with that provision.

 

[scc.131.fe]

I do question the enforceability.... but of course it has a section that claims damages would be difficult to specifically quantify (they claim selling within a year harms the entire Porsche market).... so for avoidance of doubt I would owe them $100K. It also has a mandatory arbitration provision, which I'm guessing is a kangaroo court - so I'd rather not find out.

The car I got was a 2024 718 Boxster GTS 4.0 (manual trans). I'm starting a collection of internal combustion engined cars. I'm excited for the 718 and Emira to co-exist in my garage.

I'm assuming the Porsche dealer did not charge any ADM and that you got the 718 at MSRP. Do you know if other dealers were/are charging ADM on 718 orders?

Maybe this is some dealers' idea of a compromise between ADM and having insincere buyers? Trying to put myself in their shoes during this whole flippin' situation. (Pun intended)

 

[farrbar]

I'm assuming the Porsche dealer did not charge any ADM and that you got the 718 at MSRP. Do you know if other dealers were/are charging ADM on 718 orders?

Maybe this is some dealers' idea of a compromise between ADM and having insincere buyers? Trying to put myself in their shoes during this whole flippin' situation. (Pun intended)

I paid MSRP..... that said, when I first engaged them to try to spec 718 GTS 4.0 the dealer was asking for $10K ADM, which was also the amount of the non-refundable deposit. They said all GTS & GT cars are being sold at ADM, and that base cars at MSRP, but base were "pre-configured" with $2k worth of dealer options (did ask what - Ziebart rust proofing?).

I think it is reasonable, when disclosed at time of negotiations, for at MSRP sales of an in-demand car.

 

[TXEMIRA]

Do they even have the capability of creating, maintaining, and enforcing a blacklist?

Based on their ability to; get us paint samples, pictures, reply to questions, get us the vehicles, create a fair process, etc. - Nope. No way. Haha

 

[TCB]

Can post clause? Would be interesting to see.

First Right of Refusal: If you sell this vehicle within the first 9 months of ownership you agree
to give us the first right of refusal in writing to purchase it for the same price we sold it to you for
(excluding all additional costs or fees). If you sell it without giving us the first right of refusal
then you owe us $10,000 in liquidated damages plus any collection or any legal fees.

 

[TCB]

Did Naples share this with you as part of the deposit paperwork?

I understand why dealers do this, my issue with the Porsche dealer was that they did not disclose this at the time of the original negotiation and placement of a non-refundable deposit. The Porsche dealer (and also my Lotus dealer) asked for Additional Dealer Markup, but when I got up to walk out, both agreed to MSRP. If I had agreed to ADM, and then they inform me about this for many months, I'm not sure I would agreed to sign.

For dealers selling hard to get cars at MSRP, makes sense - just be upfront about it. If the dealer is charging ADM then I'm not sure they should be entitled to the optionality that comes with that provision.

It was in the Terms & Conditions of the Final Order Form.

 

[DerTheDer]

Do they even have the capability of creating, maintaining, and enforcing a blacklist?

I believe they do not lol.

First Right of Refusal: If you sell this vehicle within the first 9 months of ownership you agree
to give us the first right of refusal in writing to purchase it for the same price we sold it to you for
(excluding all additional costs or fees). If you sell it without giving us the first right of refusal
then you owe us $10,000 in liquidated damages plus any collection or any legal fees.

wow what a crock of shit!

 

[farrbar]

First Right of Refusal: If you sell this vehicle within the first 9 months of ownership you agree
to give us the first right of refusal in writing to purchase it for the same price we sold it to you for
(excluding all additional costs or fees). If you sell it without giving us the first right of refusal
then you owe us $10,000 in liquidated damages plus any collection or any legal fees.

That number makes sense... especially if you have an FE 1.0, about the spread of 1.0 to 2.0.

My neighbor received an allocation for a Ford GT several years ago. I believe on those Ford drove the form and substance of a buyers agreement, and that had a 2 year sale prohibition. Likewise, that car if flipped was probably bringing double MSRP on the secondary market.

His work around was that he acquired the car in an LLC formed solely for the purpose of owning that car. If he wanted to sell in the first 2 years he would have just sold the LLC, but the car would not need to be re-registered.

I don't think the secondary market will be result in much opportunity for flippers, especially with so many Emiras being delivered in a short period of time (and that is only getting worse the longer Carb takes).

 

[Fasttoys]

The dealers have been in FOMO crazy land for the last 3 years going through covid shortages and easy cheap money. Those days are behind us and they are still thinking they can play the game. Ferrari‘s been playing this game for the last 30 years but now Porsche has been doing this for a while on their GT cars and special editions. Heck even Kia with the telluride had joined the craziness for the last two years, How would you like to be the guy who paid 25k over on your Telluride, guess what that is worth today. My Z06 will have a 6 month can’t be sold or other buyer losses the warranty,, which sucks if something happened and you had to unload it. The dealers don’t get affected by this game as they are playing 30 to 50k ADM. The Z06 are coming down to Mother Earth on pricing you can get them now for 10 to 20k ADM all day long. I work to hard for my money and will not pay ADM as I don’t need anything that bad. It will be interesting to see what happens to car sales if the FED waits till 3rd Q to lower rates. Anyway wish everyone the best and hope we get our cars by the end of the month. Mine will be on a ship next week.

 

[Time2Fly]

The dealers have been in FOMO crazy land for the last 3 years going through covid shortages and easy cheap money. Those days are behind us and they are still thinking they can play the game. Ferrari‘s been playing this game for the last 30 years but now Porsche has been doing this for a while on their GT cars and special editions. Heck even Kia with the telluride had joined the craziness The last two years, How would you like to be the guy who paid 25k over on your Telluride, guess what that is worth today. My Z06 will have a 6 month can’t be sold or other buyer losses the warranty,, which sucks if something happened and you had to unload it. The dealers don’t get affected by this game as they are playing 30 to 50k ADM. The Z06 are coming down to Mother Earth on pricing you can get them now for 10 to 20k ADM all day long. I work to hard for my money and will not pay ADM as I don’t need anything that bad. It will be interesting to see what happens to car sales if the FED waits till 3rd Q to lower rates. Anyway wish everyone the best and hope we get our cars by the end of the month. Mine will be on a ship next week.

Consumers in general should have hard balked at ADM. If we all did they'd have to cave. But they didn't and dealers were able to scalp cars just like flippers do.

 

[LuckysDad]

Consumers in general should have hard balked at ADM. If we all did they'd have to cave. But they didn't and dealers were able to scalp cars just like flippers do.

I refuse to buy a car with any ADM or dealer "add-ons"
Heck, I've only paid MSRP once before this car. It was for my Bronco when other dealers wanted 5 to 10k over.

 

[Fasttoys]

I did it once when I was young and paid 2k over MSRP, I have owned over 60 cars and never did it again. Getting the Lotus 1.0 at entry price and Z06 at MSRP.

 

[Lotustoronto]

Consumers in general should have hard balked at ADM. If we all did they'd have to cave. But they didn't and dealers were able to scalp cars just like flippers do.

I detest flipping as much as the next guy - even more so with enthusiast cars and was one of the main reasons I was dropping out of ordering an Emira. (dealer shenanigans) Today, there is no reason to be charging ADM's unless your Ferrari and have been doing it for 30 years. Also certain Porsche models I can understand the ADM game, limited production numbers i.e. 918 Spyder, 911 Sport Classic etc. - not a 911 S or Cayman.

For a run of the mill car, those days are over. This includes z06. At the beginning of COVID, the world shut down and car manufacturing was decreased massively, there was a reason for the insanity. Now it is over and from what I can see on dealer lot's, there is plenty of inventory to go around. Including Emira's shortly I am sure.

 

[Lotustoronto]

On another note - has anyone been able to decipher North American VIN's? Do we know if the numbers at the end are build numbers? sequential? Would love to know how many have come over to North America by now and what we end up with at the end of the year!

 

[Nova]

On another note - has anyone been able to decipher North American VIN's? Do we know if the numbers at the end are build numbers? sequential? Would love to know how many have come over to North America by now and what we end up with at the end of the year!

Here's the decoder. We know the 13th digit indicates auto or manual. 1=manual, 2=auto. The 14-17th digit is the sequence number. The big mystery is the 12th digit. In the past this indicated the market. A=US, B=Canada, etc. However, the cars delivered to US have had both A and B letters in the 12th position, so we don't know what this digit now signifies.

 

[JimH]

Here's the decoder. We know the 13th digit indicates auto or manual. 1=manual, 2=auto. The 14-17th digit is the sequence number. The big mystery is the 12th digit. In the past this indicated the market. A=US, B=Canada, etc. However, the cars delivered to US have had both A and B letters in the 12th position, so we don't know what this digit now signifies.

View attachment 35806

If it helps, digit 12 is set as "N" on my UK-specification V6 Auto - probably a region specification but there's no digit for gearbox type or RHD/LHD above either (Later Evoras had both fields specified - 12 was region spec and 13 was build type 1=std/2=proto but that's no real guide)..... Digit 13 is "2" on my car....

 

[virtualmacho]

Digit 12 is "M" and digit 13 is "1" on my Japan-specification V6 Manual.

 

[Nova]

Thanks to both of the above posts. I still believe 12th digit is a combination region code and LHD/RHD indicator. I just don't know why the US cars are both A and B. It's possible that there are no differences between the US and Canada cars. It just doesn't make any sense why they would use both letters for the cars in the US.