USA/Canada Delivery Thread

[kitkat]

I’m going to contact my state rep and ask him to check on this? With the CARB admin

You'll get a standard response saying they can't comment, don't even bother.

 

[KCMO68_510]

I’m talking about what the PR rep said in the interview a couple days ago in the news article. She said it won’t be Jan and there isn’t a timeline.

Here are the two actual quotes:

""There is other testing and software updates that need to be completed," Meier said. She could not give an estimate on when that would be done."

""Basically, what we are saying is that there are some final checks that need to be done before we can move forward, and we don't have an update at this point," Meier said."

Lotus has never publicly said January in the first place. She got a call from a reporter and just said that she wasn't going to provide the reporter an estimate. The only thing I believe any of us have received from Lotus said "first few weeks" of 2024.

 

[Newguy1354]

Let's see here. Lotus logic...
"... and we expect it will be delivered to you in the first few weeks of 2024."
Few is 3... So that's 30%... Which means 12 months x 30%...
... Carry the 1... So the cars should be released 3rd week of 2025.

 

[Porter]

Lotus has never publicly said January in the first place. She got a call from a reporter and just said that she wasn't going to provide the reporter an estimate. The only thing I believe any of us have received from Lotus said "first few weeks" of 2024.

Oh give me a break. We all remember when Lotus said the cars would be shipping in "spring" of 2022, and then it turned into "fall" 2022, then "winter" 2023. And then, after winter was almost over, it was "summer" 2023. And then it slipped and slipped to 2024, to absolutely no-one's surprise, and now they've gotten their act together just enough to ship cars onto US soil... but now can't get their paperwork in order.

What the F were all the regulatory compliance people at Lotus doing when everyone was sitting on their hands for an entire year waiting on the now-famous "supply chain" delays? Just playing paperclip football in the break room? It BOGGLES THE MIND.

No other car company seems to F these things up so comprehensively. Even goddamn VINFAST were able to get their shitty pressed-tin abomination through the gauntlet of CARB approval in a timely fashion and get cars sellable, and that thing is barely road-worthy!!

 

[KCMO68_510]

Oh give me a break. We all remember when Lotus said the cars would be shipping in "spring" of 2022, and then it turned into "fall" 2022, then "winter" 2023. And then, after winter was almost over, it was "summer" 2023. And then it slipped and slipped to 2024, to absolutely no-one's surprise, and now they've gotten their act together just enough to ship cars onto US soil... but now can't get their paperwork in order.

What the F were all the regulatory compliance people at Lotus doing when everyone was sitting on their hands for an entire year waiting on the now-famous "supply chain" delays? Just playing paperclip football in the break room? It BOGGLES THE MIND.

No other car company seems to F these things up so comprehensively. Even goddamn VINFAST were able to get their shitty pressed-tin abomination through the gauntlet of CARB approval in a timely fashion and get cars sellable, and that thing is barely road-worthy!!

If you've received other communication from Lotus, then I get your point. Legitimately though, the only communications I've ever received from Lotus was the email we just got. From my Lotus Dealer, the only communication I've got is that my car arrived and they will release it when they can.

The wait has been a complete shit show from a pure logic stand point, I don't disagree. My point though is that we are now holding them to deadlines that they never set.

 

[Lotustoronto]

Where is Qingfeng Feng when you need him? Anybody want to send him an email and ask him why Lotus CS and emissions approvals / delays are worse under Geely leadership? OR are they actually better... and for who?

If you think about it, prior to Geely the US was Lotus' largest market.

Lotus sales highest in a decade in 2021

Lotus turned in a positive sales performance in 2021 with global sales up 24% to 1,710 vehicles. Last year saw UK sales rise 29% and is now the third bigge

www.motortrader.com

Now it is dead last and I am fairly certain China will be the #1 market for Lotus once 2023 numbers have been released and the US is certain to be last at zero cars sold.

So from #1 to Last... Interesting.

 

[Balboa]

I've got a sinking feeling this car will flat not pass CARB. My prediction is Lotus will cave and sell the cars in the non-CARB states (what other choice would they have?) I live in California but i'm kind of at the point now when you've been chasing a woman out of your league and you realize it's just never gonna happen. (Wait - did she just message me? NVM she just needs help moving her couch)

 

[EspritGuy]

I've got a sinking feeling this car will flat not pass CARB. My prediction is Lotus will cave and sell the cars in the non-CARB states (what other choice would they have?) I live in CA but i'm kind of at the point now when you've been chasing a woman out of your league and you realize it's just never gonna happen. (Wait - did she just message me? NVM she just needs help moving her couch)

Yes, this has been a real Futon

 

[Lotustoronto]

I've got a sinking feeling this car will flat not pass CARB. My prediction is Lotus will cave and sell the cars in the non-CARB states (what other choice would they have?) I live in California but i'm kind of at the point now when you've been chasing a woman out of your league and you realize it's just never gonna happen. (Wait - did she just message me? NVM she just needs help moving her couch)

It will pass.... Just when CARB feels like it. The law suites from the US would put Lotus almost out of business, not to mention the collapse of their SPAC / public offering. We have to look at this from what it is... The US market is LOW priority for Lotus. That is how we are getting treated.

Cars will be released "soon"

 

[I.am.Duke]

400 pages is within range Captain. If we get 90 days more of CARB shit - we could conceivably hit 500 pages!!!

 

[benjh1028]

I'm not certain why I find this so amusing when I search for Emira on Autotrader:

 

[MIGZ]

Well I was really hoping it was going to happen this week, oh well maybe next week ……

 

[Porter]

 

[kitkat]

I've got a sinking feeling this car will flat not pass CARB. My prediction is Lotus will cave and sell the cars in the non-CARB states (what other choice would they have?) I live in California but i'm kind of at the point now when you've been chasing a woman out of your league and you realize it's just never gonna happen. (Wait - did she just message me? NVM she just needs help moving her couch)

Very unlikely, if you read the actual EPA filing all of the tests and results for CARB are in the same test groups, these would be the same tests they send to CARB. Like most emissions tests there are self certification and the EPA and CARB individually review the results and procedures with data to certify your test groups.

The only way Lotus is not passing is if something looks fishy and it looks like Lotus lied about something in the tests. If CARB detects something is amiss they'll ask questions for clarification and if they want they can take one of the cars and test it for themselves.

 

[DerTheDer]

No new updates? Sigh.

 

[Lotustoronto]

CARB - “where is the software programmed for the Emira?”

Lotus - “it’s done in China, we share many electronic components with other Geely brands, namely Lync & co”

CARB - “China?… I think we need to bring in an Emira and do some more testing.”

Lotus - “errrr, ok…. Please leave it on charge in between test…”

CARB - “it looks like we can’t get the car started after parking it overnight.”

Lotus - “Ahhh, yes it needs a software update, should be ready mid January”

CARB - “ok… you sure it will work? We need to be able to start the car to test emissions.”

Lotus - “ I think it should work, we will find out once our Spanish friend in Bilbao tests it for us. He just got it today!”

 

[Still gonna send it...]

The Motor 1 article seems to contradict the previous Automotive News article. It definitely has a more optimistic spin, stating "That process has finished" with regards to the CARB update process. However, the original quote from Meier in Automotive News stated "There is other testing and software updates that need to be completed". If the original quote from Meier is current, that does not sound "finished" to me.

If the software updates are in fact complete and the cars have been pre-flashed with them, then I would expect certification "soon". However, if new updates are just going into CARB now, we are probably looking at another 3 months or so for re-testing.

 

[Porter]

If you've received other communication from Lotus, then I get your point. Legitimately though, the only communications I've ever received from Lotus was the email we just got. From my Lotus Dealer, the only communication I've got is that my car arrived and they will release it when they can.

The wait has been a complete shit show from a pure logic stand point, I don't disagree. My point though is that we are now holding them to deadlines that they never set.

The communication from Lotus was the clear verbal statements given by Lotus senior staff, directly to camera, at Goodwood 2021, and then Goodwood 2022. They made earnest comments about production and homologation that were explicitly inclusive of US market product. They even got on The Smoking Tire podcast in December of '21 and acted like they were right on the verge of completing homologation and starting full scale production, when in reality they hadn't even started the regulatory process, either in the UK/EU markets or in the US.

Then Matt Windle got on camera in June of 2022 and filmed a video apologizing for supply chain delays and made a series of explicit promises to their UK customers about honoring of original order pricing following the delays, all of which were subsequently broken in short order. "The price you've been quoted is the price you'll pay." Something like 60 days later, it turned out to be a lie, and many UK customers canceled their orders in protest.

That's in addition to the many assurances and general messaging received by journalists in the UK and EU in response to their pointed questions to Lotus senior management over the last 3 years. There were even multiple interviews with Matt Windle and Russell Carr on camera, by multiple outlets. TheLotusForums did a long-form interview with Matt Windle before the original Goodwood reveal. And then there were a boatload of them after, including multiple factory walk-through videos and discussions about production, the last of which was with Harry Metcalfe. And there was even a damn Channel 4 documentary about the "new Lotus". I have a copy of it if you want one.


You have to understand, for those of us who have been watching this shit show from the beginning, it's been insane. We've had a bizarre front-row seat to watch them outright lie to journalists and the public whenever they've been on camera, and then, rather inexcusably, lie to their own dealers about product production and delivery schedules. Lotus have to have known that the things they've said weren't correct, or not achievable. It's not like the regulatory process is a surprise. It's the same every time! The dealers could do nothing other than pass those lies forward as though they were fact, though many dealers stopped doing that after they'd been burned two or three times.

And then on the other hand, as US customers we've literally received zero meaningful communication from Lotus following the placement of our deposits and locked-in orders, because apparently the one constituency they feel NO responsibility toward whatsoever is their paying customers.

Utter nonsense, all of it. I'll be very happy to receive the car when it finally comes, because the one department in the company that seems to have their asses in proper gear is the engineering team, but my trust in the company itself hovers somewhere functionally around zero.

 

[WarriorHockey2266]

The Motor 1 article seems to contradict the previous Automotive News article. It definitely has a more optimistic spin, stating "That process has finished" with regards to the CARB update process. However, the original quote from Meier in Automotive News stated "There is other testing and software updates that need to be completed". If the original quote from Meier is current, that does not sound "finished" to me.

If the software updates are in fact complete and the cars have been pre-flashed with them, then I would expect certification "soon". However, if new updates are just going into CARB now, we are probably looking at another 3 months or so for re-testing.

I don’t think it contradicts them, I think the problem is that it compliments each other. The EPA certification was done in October, all the data is already there for CARB. CARB in theory should be easy since it says it met those levels on the test. This is why I said I think they sent them correctly thinking they were good and it’d be approved. Now the test is done but Lotus is saying they need to go back and do stuff. That is really concerning.

 

[Porter]

I don’t think it contradicts them, I think the problem is that it compliments each other. The EPA certification was done in October, all the data is already there for CARB. CARB in theory should be easy since it says it met those levels on the test. This is why I said I think they sent them correctly thinking they were good and it’d be approved. Now the test is done but Lotus is saying they need to go back and do stuff. That is really concerning.

Based on prior promises to dealers and journalists about production schedules, the EPA certification should have been done in October of the PRIOR YEAR. In 2022. Not in 2023.