USA & Canada pricing

[Leonard]

Hey all. I really was not being rhetorical. I am truly asking, what features are on a FE Emira that aren’t found on a base Cayman GTS 4.0? Trying to slog through the Cayman/Boxster website on a phone is not easy. My other observations/opinions were just in support of my confusion. I’m leaning toward a V6 car but still a bit conflicted regarding the I4 DCT, and whether I should wait for own spec in either circumstance. Thanks.

Off top of my head no forged wheels, no metallic paint, no premium stereo, no LED light front and rear, no rear view camera, no full leather, no folding mirrors, full electric memory seats, black pack bits. Sure there is probably more...

 

[NoFear99]

Hey all. I really was not being rhetorical. I am truly asking, what features are on a FE Emira that aren’t found on a base Cayman GTS 4.0? Trying to slog through the Cayman/Boxster website on a phone is not easy. My other observations/opinions were just in support of my confusion. I’m leaning toward a V6 car but still a bit conflicted regarding the I4 DCT, and whether I should wait for own spec in either circumstance. Thanks.

I dont have looked closely at the base Cayman specs sheet because I am not a Porsche fan to buy one but I would say that you dont have:

- Forged wheels
- Big 350W KEF sound system ( Bose option for Porsche.)
- Colored interior stitching
- LED light ( I think it is an option for Porsche.)
- Alcantara insertion inside the car. ( seats and dashboard.)
- Metallic paint color is an option for Porsche but included into FE price either.
- 12 ways adjustable seats instead of 4 ways as normally standard onto the Emira.
- Heated seats.
- Painted brakes calipers the color you want optionnal for Porsche.
- 2 pieces brakes discs for the First Edition.


Regarding all the electronics gadgets I can not help you on this because honestly I so so dont give a F word about front and rear bumper parking sensors, rain sensors, changing lane assist, auto dimming mirrors and so on and on included with the FE Emira but dont know if included for the base Cayman.

 

[Leonard]

I have just priced up all the extras and on the Cayman GTS in the UK the price rises from just over £65k basic to £80k.... So 4.5k more than the Emira

 

[TomE]

As well as what's already been mentioned: leather seats, folding mirrors, auto dimming mirrors, rain sensing wipers, cruise control, keyless entry, floor mats, aluminium pedals, door sill guards and ignition starter switch are all costed extras on the Cayman and included on the V6 First Edition.

 

[TassieDevil]

That's a bit moot. You wouldn't complain that the latest Ferrari should be cheaper because its a new car. The KEF sound system alone would be 6k if on the Porsche options list

Interesting quality comparison Ferrari vs Lotus.
My point is that the Emira is a totally new model in a totally new facility, Lotus have until now been building vehicle's with substandard world levels of quality (even by their own admission). Now its probably safe to say there will be a vast improvement but its still a risk factor to commit at an early stage to a product with unknown final product quality.
Porsche, BMW, MBenz, even Ferrari you know what you will get, sight unseen.

 

[NoFear99]

Interesting quality comparison Ferrari vs Lotus.
My point is that the Emira is a totally new model in a totally new facility, Lotus have until now been building vehicle's with substandard world levels of quality (even by their own admission). Now its probably safe to say there will be a vast improvement but its still a risk factor to commit at an early stage to a product with unknown final product quality.
Porsche, BMW, MBenz, even Ferrari you know what you will get, sight unseen.

To build light cars, you have to sacrefice fit and finish as simple as that. It was the Lotus philosophy. This new Emira now have the fit and finish other people are looking for but the car is now as heavier as Porsche.

I’m fine with that because I will keep my Exige with the Emira but I would never sacrifice the unique feel of my nimble exige for the other. It will remain something unique with no compromise.

I have no complaint what so ever about the quality with my Exige for what it is and represent. I wouldnt change anything of the receipe.

I’m confident the Emira build quality is going to be just fine. Not perfect but fine.

 

[Carbuilder]

To build light cars, you have to sacrefice fit and finish as simple as that. It was the Lotus philosophy.

Don't agree with that at all, and don't see the connection. To keep a car light you sacrifice sound insulation, seat comfort, ride comfort, maybe A/C, fancy stereos, but fit and finish don't add weight.

As for Ferrari quality, maybe when brand new, but give it a few years until the leather shrinks on the dash, the switches get all sticky (they still use the same crap they've been using for 20 years), exhaust manifolds crack, cats blow out. Porsche is certainly a benchmark for quality and Lotus will have a hard time matching that; but if they at least come close it will be a huge success.

As for Canadian pricing....reality is that it is a pretty small market and if they over price and lose some sales they will hardly notice. I'm not saying I'd like that, but Canadian sales aren't going to make or break the car. US sales......yes.

 

[Nonoyeah]

Agree with you comments. Why compare the Emira to a Cayman GTS or GT4 or a C8
It is not. You either want an Emira or you don't The price works for you or it does not.
Bickering over price for a very unique car is ridiculous. That's my opinion for what it is worth.

Exclusivity is something I always figure into every purchase.

 

[NoFear99]

Don't agree with that at all, and don't see the connection. To keep a car light you sacrifice sound insulation, seat comfort, ride comfort, maybe A/C, fancy stereos, but fit and finish don't add weight.

As for Ferrari quality, maybe when brand new, but give it a few years until the leather shrinks on the dash, the switches get all sticky (they still use the same crap they've been using for 20 years), exhaust manifolds crack, cats blow out. Porsche is certainly a benchmark for quality and Lotus will have a hard time matching that; but if they at least come close it will be a huge success.

As for Canadian pricing....reality is that it is a pretty small market and if they over price and lose some sales they will hardly notice. I'm not saying I'd like that, but Canadian sales aren't going to make or break the car. US sales......yes.

Name me one car that weight 1900-2000 pounds that has a nice fit and finish ?

When you use material to be lighter and you cut here and there and sacrefice this and that a lot of people will call that a cheap car or look like a cheaper car or whatever while myself I see something pure.

Porsche have sold 301 Cayman last year in Canada. It is almost the double of the Evora sale into the US. If each Canadian dealer may sell 25-35 cars each that means 150-180 per year. If Lotus want to reach 4800 sale per year or 1600 cars for North America they will need every piece of the puzzle to do it. You need the smaller markets too and win every small and bigger battle to reach your fixed goal at the end.

I do sell life insurance for living and if I had your thinking I would not serve and respect the customer who have a small budget to invest or subscribe for their contract. At the end of the year you get the success you deserve because you did your best for every small and big customer. You treat them all the same equally ( small + small + small = something not bad and not negligible. )

 

[NoFear99]

Agree with you comments. Why compare the Emira to a Cayman GTS or GT4 or a C8
It is not. You either want an Emira or you don't The price works for you or it does not.
Bickering over price for a very unique car is ridiculous. That's my opinion for what it is worth.

People keep comparing the Emira to C8 or Cayman because the Lotus head of marketing did it himself. He even said Z4 and F-Type as well.
So when you clearly state the cars you want to compete with, we figure out that the price of the car should be somewhat comparable to them.

Until now in every market where the price is known, Lotus have positioned the Emira FE between the base GTS 4.0 and base Cayman GT4 and it make sense and also clearly proove they want to steal Cayman’s sales.
I think it is absolutely normal and I dont see why we should not compare them. I prefer myself the unique side of Lotus over Porsche but the company cannot continue to be that much unique like in the past otherwise there will be no more Lotus for our futur.

Lotus targets U.S. buyers with Emira's 'user-friendly' features

The UK sports-car maker is targeting overall annual sales of 5,000 vehicles under its revival plan, and it wants a third of that volume to come from the U.S.

europe.autonews.com

 

[Carbuilder]

Name me one car that weight 1900-2000 pounds that has a nice fit and finish...

I do sell life insurance for living ....

I think we have different ideas of what "fit and finish" means. I still don't see how having a nice paint finish and good panel fit (inside and out) would add weight; not much anyways). There are similar weight cars that have good and bad fit and finish; older Vettes vs Porsche Cayman. It adds cost, not weight.

And the insurance example, well, it is your job to sell insurance without discriminating on who the customer is. It is Lotus's job to make money. The current Canadian market is less than 2% of their sales, and the US is about 15%. To increase Canadian sales they will need new dealerships; too few now spread apart too far. To increase US sales they just need another couple % of sales here and there. Which is easier and cheaper?

My opinions of course. Few of us actually have the facts behind the decisions Lotus makes. We are all guessing at what the upcoming price will be, as if logic plays into it. How much they can get for a car and still sell it is the only logic. If they want to sell it for more than a Cayman GT4, then they will. They may not sell as many compared with pricing it cheaper, but in the long run if the quality and performance is world-class, then the market share will slowly increase. Worked for Ferrari, even with quality that is nothing to brag about.

 

[weepel]

Before I get booed out of this thread, I fully recognize that a Jaguar F-Type is a significantly different vehicle in terms of class and purpose, however as noted in @NoFear99 's reply, Lotus themselves are targeting the F-Type, Cayman, and Vette as competitors to the Emira. Full disclosure, I know little to nothing about Jaguar other than it's the product of a since-ended relationship with Ford and Aston... honest question, is the 5.0 motor in the jag the same as in the Mustang? Out of curiosity I spec'd out an "FE-equivalent" F-Type and the price came in at $77,666.00 including delivery and destination (note Jag's configurator didn't include my "upgraded" wheel choice in the render):

As others have pointed out, the Emira is differentiated from its competitors in terms of uniqueness, aesthetics and (we think) performance, however a delta of US$16.23k is intriguing if in fact Lotus considers the F-Type a competitor. I guess the question is do US and Canadian consumers think the aesthetic and handling account for ~US$16,000 in price difference? Personally, while I've kept my FE deposit with my local dealer, I may at least consider an F-Type given the price point. Also would tick my box for "V8" as the 8-pot's days are numbered...

All that said, I've been involved with HPDE events for ~7 years I cannot recall having seen an F-Type on track

 

[weepel]

Before I get booed out of this thread, I fully recognize that a Jaguar F-Type is a significantly different vehicle in terms of class and purpose, however as noted in @NoFear99 's reply, Lotus themselves are targeting the F-Type, Cayman, and Vette as competitors to the Emira. Full disclosure, I know little to nothing about Jaguar other than it's the product of a since-ended relationship with Ford and Aston... honest question, is the 5.0 motor in the jag the same as in the Mustang? Out of curiosity I spec'd out an "FE-equivalent" F-Type and the price came in at $77,666.00 including delivery and destination (note Jag's configurator didn't include my "upgraded" wheel choice in the render):

View attachment 737
View attachment 738


As others have pointed out, the Emira is differentiated from its competitors in terms of uniqueness, aesthetics and (we think) performance, however a delta of US$16.23k is intriguing if in fact Lotus considers the F-Type a competitor. I guess the question is do US and Canadian consumers think the aesthetic and handling account for ~US$16,000 in price difference? Personally, while I've kept my FE deposit with my local dealer, I may at least consider an F-Type given the price point. Also would tick my box for "V8" as the 8-pot's days are numbered...

All that said, I've been involved with HPDE events for ~7 years I cannot recall having seen an F-Type on track

In fairness to Lotus, I skipped over the Supercharged V8 option (since it only comes in AWD) which sent my build to $111K, a good ~9k over the Emira FE price (assuming a $2k destination charge, which I believe is not included in the 93.9 price).

 

[Maurice R]

Said this before and again now, either you want the Emira FE or you do not.
Complaining about what you think the price should or should not or compared to a base Cayman GTS 4.0 is just plain stupid in my opinion.
By the time you option out the Cayman you will be somewhat higher than the Emira.
Lotus will not change their pricing based on forum discussions.
I honestly believe their marketing guru's did their research over a long period in time to determine what people would pay.
For those who back out because you don't like the pricing that works for me.... as it puts me higher on the list to get one.

 

[NoFear99]

Said this before and again now, either you want the Emira FE or you do not.
Complaining about what you think the price should or should not or compared to a base Cayman GTS 4.0 is just plain stupid in my opinion.
By the time you option out the Cayman you will be somewhat higher than the Emira.
Lotus will not change their pricing based on forum discussions.
I honestly believe their marketing guru's did their research over a long period in time to determine what people would pay.
For those who back out because you don't like the pricing that works for me.... as it puts me higher on the list to get one.

We are just asking to price the car between the base GTS 4.0 and the base Cayman GT4 just like they did in every other market in the world until now period. What do you have to complaint about that ? You want them to charge 10 000$ more here then a base GT4 while in USA the FE is 7 300$US less ?

I’ll make a deal with you, if I can get the car for 115K I will resell it to you for 125K for your pleasure or for 135K if you prefer ? If you have too much monney to throw out the windows we can help you with that.

I am sure that I want the Emira 2-3 times more then you and most of people would never do as much sacrefice in their personnal life like myself I’m doing to get one.

125 000$ + destination charge 3 000$ + 19 200$ sale taxs ( 15% ) + 5 600$ deluxe tax = 152 800$ vs +or- 103K in USA.

 

[Carbuilder]

I am sure that I want the Emira 2-3 times more then you and most of people would never do as much sacrefice in their personnal life like myself I’m doing to get one.

Seriously?!?!??!!? How are you measuring that? You sure it isn't 4 times.........maybe only 1.9 times?

 

[NoFear99]

Seriously?!?!??!!? How are you measuring that? You sure it isn't 4 times.........maybe only 1.9 times?

I dont know if it is 2 or 3 or 4 times and it doesnt matter.
But he said you want the Emira or not like if no matter how Lotus price the car it was suppose to be just fine.

Someone who think like that is perhap not a real serious buyer or it is somebody that can afford the car no matter how the car is going to be priced and dont care to pay the right price for it or not.

 

[weepel]

Said this before and again now, either you want the Emira FE or you do not.
Complaining about what you think the price should or should not or compared to a base Cayman GTS 4.0 is just plain stupid in my opinion.
By the time you option out the Cayman you will be somewhat higher than the Emira.
Lotus will not change their pricing based on forum discussions.
I honestly believe their marketing guru's did their research over a long period in time to determine what people would pay.
For those who back out because you don't like the pricing that works for me.... as it puts me higher on the list to get one.

No sympathy for our friendly neighbors to the North, and on Canadian Thanksgiving no less!? Joking aside, I do believe our Canadian brethren may be getting a bit screwed on pricing when compared to other markets (although I'll throw in the Aussies too as their pricing is painful. Having previously lived in Oz and owning a car there, I can certainly empathize). Je pense que ceci une injustice! At the very least, let's hope Lotus does right by the Canadians (et les Québécois) and aligning their market strategy accordingly. To date, have we seen Canadian pricing? Asking for a friend ;-)

 

[p.rob]

No sympathy for our friendly neighbors to the North, and on Canadian Thanksgiving no less!? Joking aside, I do believe our Canadian brethren may be getting a bit screwed on pricing when compared to other markets (although I'll throw in the Aussies too as their pricing is painful. Having previously lived in Oz and owning a car there, I can certainly empathize). Je pense que ceci une injustice! At the very least, let's hope Lotus does right by the Canadians (et les Québécois) and aligning their market strategy accordingly. To date, have we seen Canadian pricing? Asking for a friend ;-)

no, still waiting on any news. Been thinking about this for the past week. I don't really think the price will mather that much for me afterall. That's the car I want and that's the car I'll get.

 

[NoFear99]

no, still waiting on any news. Been thinking about this for the past week. I don't really think the price will mather that much for me afterall. That's the car I want and that's the car I'll get.

For the past week ? For the past months you means. ( 3 months and 6 days to be accurate. )