Any chance Lotus having auto rev match on the manual Emira?

[Maverick1]

I know Porsche and many other auto manufacturers have added auto rev match on their manual transmissions.
Last year I bought a Hyundai Veloster N and it has auto rev matching, and I'm very glad it does, because the pedals are not set up very well at all for heel and towing.
My Ariel Atom was perfect for heel and toe rev matching.
My Boxter was pretty good.
Are most Lotus cars set up and easy for heel and towing??
Cheers.

 

[IanO]

the cluster already displays what gear you are in, so they most likely already have that sensor.

The gear display uses the gear you are in based on calculation of engine speed compared to vehicle speed. This only works when the clutch is engaged which is sufficient to recommend the gear to change to from the gear you are in.

With rev matching you need to know the gear the driver wants whilst they are changing gear rather than the gear they have just been in.

 

[VL3X]

First Editions are sounding more and more like a bad deal as features are "coming" but withheld from the FE. Sure, we get the 3 packs that are supposed to save ~$5k or so (even though we still don't have individual package/option pricing), but FE aren't coming with auto blip, adas, or TDC stripe, etc. Plus we all know future V6 versions will get power bump of ~15-30HP with a simple ecu reflash and future GT models with be offered with carbon packs and bucket seats.

Though I don't personally want or need the ADAS or auto blip, they're features that add value (and little to no weight) to the Emira and it stinks they're not offered on the FE.

 

[TomE]

Rev match/auto blip has never as far as I'm aware been touted as "coming later" on the Emira. ADAS is coming later but possibly only on the i4 cars, due to technical considerations that are still being investigated.

As Ian has highlighted, adding some of these features requires engineering them in to the engine, gearbox, clutch and/or transmission to add sensors. My guess is Lotus have decided to carry over the V6 setup without major modifications because the effort and sales volumes don't justify it. I suspect they thought V6 buyers wouldn't insist on it as standard. Having it as an option could mean low take up and hence engineered in for even lower volumes. Plus they are limiting options and choices on the First Editions to simplify build and QA. And they're managing to a target cost in the midst of growing inflation.

 

[VL3X]

Rev match/auto blip has never as far as I'm aware been touted as "coming later" on the Emira. ADAS is coming later but possibly only on the i4 cars, due to technical considerations that are still being investigated.

As Ian has highlighted, adding some of these features requires engineering them in to the engine, gearbox, clutch and/or transmission to add sensors. My guess is Lotus have decided to carry over the V6 setup without major modifications because the effort and sales volumes don't justify it. I suspect they thought V6 buyers wouldn't insist on it as standard. Having it as an option could mean low take up and hence engineered in for even lower volumes. Plus they are limiting options and choices on the First Editions to simplify build and QA. And they're managing to a target cost in the midst of growing inflation.

Hm.. I thought I saw someone mention that rev match was coming on V6s, but just not the FE. I could be mistaken.

Did you hear any mention of manual transmission ever being offered on the AMG i4? I think that would convert a lot of V6 owners. I'm still so confused how the 15-20 year old Toyota engine is the more expensive option. You'd think the world's most powerful turbo i4 (and from AMG!) mated to a dual clutch transmission would be much more expesnive. Not to mention the extra R&D Lotus and AMG had to do together to make it work.

 

[TomE]

Cost versus price. And they're probably making more margin on the V6.

The V6 should be cheaper and need less engineering to go into the Emira. i4 is probably more expensive, as a more recent engine, and has needed a stack more development work.

But, I don't think Toyota are using this V6 in anything else now, so presumably are keeping their line open just for Lotus. It's clear Toyota won't update the engine for EU7 emissions. Might that mean an extra cost?

The chairman of Geely has a stake in Daimler. Who knows what kind of deal that enabled on AMG engine supply and collaboration.

Do any manufacturers price a V6 higher powered model at a lower price than a 4 cylinder lower powered version? If the 4 cyl was higher power than the V6 it would be a different question. Which is why I think they won't uprate the i4 until the V6 has been phased out.

 

[IanO]

Cost versus price. And they're probably making more margin on the V6.

The V6 should be cheaper and need less engineering to go into the Emira. i4 is probably more expensive, as a more recent engine, and has needed a stack more development work.

But, I don't think Toyota are using this V6 in anything else now, so presumably are keeping their line open just for Lotus. It's clear Toyota won't update the engine for EU7 emissions. Might that mean an extra cost?

The chairman of Geely has a stake in Daimler. Who knows what kind of deal that enabled on AMG engine supply and collaboration.

Do any manufacturers price a V6 higher powered model at a lower price than a 4 cylinder lower powered version? If the 4 cyl was higher power than the V6 it would be a different question. Which is why I think they won't uprate the i4 until the V6 has been phased out.

There are intrinsically more parts in a V6 plus low volumes will definitely push the price up. You also need to take into account the cost of the supercharger, charge cooler and associated plumbing that they bolt on.

Fundamentally more power = higher price, that’s the way sales/marketing works, you don’t get something for nothing. If there was a 400hp version of the i4 in Europe I expect it would be the same price as the V6 auto, the cayman is £10,000 extra to go from 300 to 350hp (yes it does get some extra equipment but not much).

We’re waiting to hear what an i4 sounds like but I bet the extra money for the V6 is worth it for the sound. A supercharger doesn’t break up the exhaust sound waves like a turbo does and a V6 is more tuneful than a 4.

 

[IanO]

Hm.. I thought I saw someone mention that rev match was coming on V6s, but just not the FE. I could be mistaken.

Did you hear any mention of manual transmission ever being offered on the AMG i4? I think that would convert a lot of V6 owners. I'm still so confused how the 15-20 year old Toyota engine is the more expensive option. You'd think the world's most powerful turbo i4 (and from AMG!) mated to a dual clutch transmission would be much more expesnive. Not to mention the extra R&D Lotus and AMG had to do together to make it work.

Rev matching comes with the V6 auto but not the manual.

The auto has all the sensors and controls you need to do rev matching and it will be controlled by the transmission electronics.

 

[VL3X]

Cost versus price. And they're probably making more margin on the V6.

The V6 should be cheaper and need less engineering to go into the Emira. i4 is probably more expensive, as a more recent engine, and has needed a stack more development work.

But, I don't think Toyota are using this V6 in anything else now, so presumably are keeping their line open just for Lotus. It's clear Toyota won't update the engine for EU7 emissions. Might that mean an extra cost?

The chairman of Geely has a stake in Daimler. Who knows what kind of deal that enabled on AMG engine supply and collaboration.

Do any manufacturers price a V6 higher powered model at a lower price than a 4 cylinder lower powered version? If the 4 cyl was higher power than the V6 it would be a different question. Which is why I think they won't uprate the i4 until the V6 has been phased out.

You're probably right here. V6 will always cost more than the I4 counterpart (just thinking Caymans here), but what happens when the I4 GT comes out with more power (thinking 450HP)? Will the V6 be phased out and limited to FE and base configs? Or did they release the V6 with just 400HP because they know they can bump it to 430HO safely for the Emira GT (while the I4 GT will get 430-450hp)? I just wish we knew these answers and their plan before ordering. Heck, I just want to see actual colors and drive one before taking delivery!

I'm locked in to a FE and plan to take delivery, but will most likely flip it for a white custom spec when their available and the time is right.

 

[4GIV8M3]

The length people will go to make up excuses for the Emiras and Lotus's short falls are sad. Not only can Lotus not take criticism (Chris Harris will tell you this) But neither can its fans or helpers. Keep defending Lotus instead of calling them out and it will result in the brand continuing to be a failure.

 

[TomE]

You're probably right here. V6 will always cost more than the I4 counterpart (just thinking Caymans here), but what happens when the I4 GT comes out with more power (thinking 450HP)? Will the V6 be phased out and limited to FE and base configs? Or did they release the V6 with just 400HP because they know they can bump it to 430HO safely for the Emira GT (while the I4 GT will get 430-450hp)? I just wish we knew these answers and their plan before ordering. Heck, I just want to see actual colors and drive one before taking delivery!

I'm locked in to a FE and plan to take delivery, but will most likely flip it for a white custom spec when their available and the time is right.

You won't get this plan, no manufacturer will publicise it's model strategy. But history tells us Lotus like many other companies will release new models that are more powerful and with different trims and options.

We do know the V6 is likely to be phased out due to emissions. But it will be available in First Edition and Base Edition versions and be sold as long as there is demand. It may get a power increase, there may be a GT/S/R and there may be a Final Edition. The GT4 race car is using it, at least for 2022 and 2023.

The i4 will very likely get a power increase over the model life and associated GT/S/R versions. We have no idea on timing. My guess is a hotter version is two years away at the earliest.

It's OK to wait until you have more info, press reviews, test drives etc. No one is forcing you to take the car and you can slip down the queue a month or 6 or 12, or wait for the next hotter version. Not everyone is comfortable committing a large sum on the limited info currently available. It's also OK to get an FE and trade it in later for the next variant - it's something I've considered and have a deposit in accordingly.

 

[TomE]

The length people will go to make up excuses for the Emiras and Lotus's short falls are sad. Not only can Lotus not take criticism (Chris Harris will tell you this) But neither can its fans or helpers. Keep defending Lotus instead of calling them out and it will result in the brand continuing to be a failure.

You think Lotus should do things they have decided not to do. That's fine.

A feature that some people think should be included isn't being included. So some people will be disappointed and some will accept it and some will cancel orders. They've made decisions about engines and model strategy. We might disagree and we can provide feedback and Lotus can take it on board or ignore it. And we can buy their cars or not buy them. So far there seem to be many more people interested in buying an Emira than Lotus expected. Seems like it might be going to be a success? But we have to wait and see reviews, conversion of deposits to orders, real world customer experiences, dealer and after sales support etc etc.

I was frustrated by how they were approaching things, took the initiative and lobbied for those things to be looked at. They listened, I told them my and other people's views, they have taken and are taking some action. Will they tackle everything? I doubt it. But they will do something.

What would you like to call them out on and how do you propose communicating that to them?

 

[FederGigant]

I guess after the base edition V6 there won't be much more to expect from that engine. For those that are willing to wait even longer to get a few more hp from whichever engine: as it is a world car, our nice EU regulations will effect all Emiras, no matter where you live. From 2023 on Lotus has to fit every gas car with an OPF, because they are selling bigger volumes than 10.000 cars a year (including EVs). Stricter noise regulations are set to come in 2024, so cars have to be even quieter from there on. The "EU7 Norm" which is our next regulation regarding exhaust fumes will come in 2025 and probably kill the V6 anyways. The i4 has to be adjusted big time to meet the new regulations. And I'm quite sure there are a few more funny things to come after 2025. If you ask me, better start the Emira party now. I don't see a 450 hp EU7 i4 coming because chances are big that it's technically not possible, if they want to meet emission standards. It's rumored that new engines are not allowed to run on anything different than Lamda 1.0 anymore.

 

[jmn444]

The length people will go to make up excuses for the Emiras and Lotus's short falls are sad. Not only can Lotus not take criticism (Chris Harris will tell you this) But neither can its fans or helpers. Keep defending Lotus instead of calling them out and it will result in the brand continuing to be a failure.

Unless you are cancelling your order, you are inherently making all the excuses they need to succeed. It's only a true shortfall if you opt not to buy, otherwise it's just a compromise on getting a car you truly want. Plenty of other options if you aren't happy enough with the process to buy one, so not sure why you would whine about what you aren't getting since nobody is forced to buy one.

 

[TomE]

I guess after the base edition V6 there won't be much more to expect from that engine. For those that are willing to wait even longer to get a few more hp from whichever engine: as it is a world car, our nice EU regulations will effect all Emiras, no matter where you live. From 2023 on Lotus has to fit every gas car with an OPF, because they are selling bigger volumes than 10.000 cars a year (including EVs). Stricter noise regulations are set to come in 2024, so cars have to be even quieter from there on. The "EU7 Norm" which is our next regulation regarding exhaust fumes will come in 2025 and probably kill the V6 anyways. The i4 has to be adjusted big time to meet the new regulations. And I'm quite sure there are a few more funny things to come after 2025. If you ask me, better start the Emira party now. I don't see a 450 hp EU7 i4 coming because chances are big that it's technically not possible, if they want to meet emission standards. It's rumored that new engines are not allowed to run on anything different than Lamda 1.0 anymore.

I would hope Lotus might do a V6 Final Edition to end the run. But the incoming regulations may make that difficult to be "better" than the First Edition, at least in terms of power and noise. We might not see a "Final" in Europe and instead the V6 could have its runout in the US if the regulations are less strict. That might even make up for the delay on the US getting First Editions

 

[jmn444]

I would hope Lotus might do a V6 Final Edition to end the run. But the incoming regulations may make that difficult to be "better" than the First Edition, at least in terms of power and noise. We might not see a "Final" in Europe and instead the V6 could have it's runout in the US if the regulations are less strict. That might even make up for the delay on the US getting First Editions

It would make up for us not getting the v6 exiges too!

 

[Honeywell]

My Toyota GT86 has been tuned by Fensport. It has four maps selectable on the fly. Map4 gives me rev matching downshifts and no-lift upchanges.

Its just software and its not expensive and it works incredibly well. I think the Lotus brand would benefit from that sort of selectable racing tech.

I love the rev matching. Whilst I can heel and toE reasonably well its very enjoyable for the car to do it perfectly for me at times whilst I concentrate on steering, road position and overtaking planning. I sometimes switch it off to do it myself but its a lovely little option.

 

[FederGigant]

My Toyota GT86 has been tuned by Fensport. It has four maps selectable on the fly. Map4 gives me rev matching downshifts and no-lift upchanges.

Its just software and its not expensive and it works incredibly well. I think the Lotus brand would benefit from that sort of selectable racing tech.

I love the rev matching. Whilst I can heel and toE reasonably well its very enjoyable for the car to do it perfectly for me at times whilst I concentrate on steering, road position and overtaking planning. I sometimes switch it off to do it myself but its a lovely little option.

Does it also rev match if you are not on the brake?

 

[Leonard]

My Toyota GT86 has been tuned by Fensport. It has four maps selectable on the fly. Map4 gives me rev matching downshifts and no-lift upchanges.

Its just software and its not expensive and it works incredibly well. I think the Lotus brand would benefit from that sort of selectable racing tech.

I love the rev matching. Whilst I can heel and toE reasonably well its very enjoyable for the car to do it perfectly for me at times whilst I concentrate on steering, road position and overtaking planning. I sometimes switch it off to do it myself but its a lovely little option.

I was sure it would be doable through just the ECU, but who knows. Maybe worth a call to Komotec
Be interesting to see what the tuning scene comes up with for the Emira anyway! Exciting times

 

[Honeywell]

Does it also rev match if you are not on the brake?

No, the rev match will only happen if you are braking. I don't think the ECU knows which way you are moving the stick but the car does from the factory display the selected gear you are in.

I am not sure if the system knows the deceleration g rate but however it works it out it works very neatly.

It is sometimes annoying though if you change UP a gear whilst gently braking because you get the unnecessary throttle blip. For drivers that don't understand the tech it is alarming. My hunch is that major car companies can't put this tech into a car without serious legal risks. Nissan have in the past, Porsche do but I don't know what measures they take to limit their liability.

 

[SlavaUkraini]

Going through all the posts, the most surprising thing I read is that the Emira doesn’t have keyless entry? I’ve watched all the videos out there and Lotus has talked about making the car feel luxurious on the inside, so that’s surprising. It obviously has push to start. Seems like a questionable decision.