Anyone received their 30 day notification yet?

[Eagle7]

If I recall correctly, I believe it was Gavan who said they weren't including ADAS on the V6 FE because they discovered the system they had didn't comply with some regulation it needed to. They had to get an updated system. Probably the electronics/chipset would be my guess. However they've been developing/testing it all along; the 007 Prototype car was an ADAS development vehicle, and ADAS teams have been seen testing in Europe all year.

The problem they may have now, is due to production being pushed out, instead of the V6 FE being a model year 2022 car, it's now a model year 2024, and there were new regulations coming in that they may now have to comply with. One of them I believe was the gas particulate filter. That may be U.K. only though, I don't know.

As far as validation for the U.S., most manufacturers just get their cars validated for California, which has the strictest regulations. If it passes for California, it's a 50 state car, but they may require something that other states don't, so that could be something Lotus is wrestling with. Other states are more lenient.

The longer all this takes though, the closer they get to the tougher regulations coming into play, and the less time they have to be able to use the V6. Tough spot to be in, but hopefully things will start to loosen up next year and production can ramp up.

 

[emiraspain]

Friday of what year?

i think its simply GOOD friday

 

[CDM1855]

If I recall correctly, I believe it was Gavan who said they weren't including ADAS on the V6 FE because they discovered the system they had didn't comply with some regulation it needed to. They had to get an updated system. Probably the electronics/chipset would be my guess. However they've been developing/testing it all along; the 007 Prototype car was an ADAS development vehicle, and ADAS teams have been seen testing in Europe all year.

The problem they may have now, is due to production being pushed out, instead of the V6 FE being a model year 2022 car, it's now a model year 2024, and there were new regulations coming in that they may now have to comply with. One of them I believe was the gas particulate filter. That may be U.K. only though, I don't know.

As far as validation for the U.S., most manufacturers just get their cars validated for California, which has the strictest regulations. If it passes for California, it's a 50 state car, but they may require something that other states don't, so that could be something Lotus is wrestling with. Other states are more lenient.

The longer all this takes though, the closer they get to the tougher regulations coming into play, and the less time they have to be able to use the V6. Tough spot to be in, but hopefully things will start to loosen up next year and production can ramp up.

Yes Particulate filter installation will be another thing that dampens the sound and will be a real turn off, removing it likely voids warranties, road rules and insurance

 

[Evotion]

Eek, I hope that is all not true.
Isn't the EMira safe from any reg changes due the date it was originally signed off?
I guess we will find out what it means for us in the real world.

 

[emiraspain]

This is exactly what I have been thinking regarding the revised legislation, but I have been reluctant to comment on it as I seem to be constantly having a go at Lotus and it pains me to be like that.

I think that there may be two further problems for Lotus to overcome. The first one is the very well publicised chip shortage, If Lotus suddenly need a batch of chips, they are going to find themselves in the same shoes as a latecomer Emira depositor i.e. at the back of the queue.

The second potential issue is that we know from photos of prototypes that Lotus were working on ADAS, but this was dropped for the FE V6, but we do not know why. We could assume that it is the aforementioned chip shortage, but it could be that they could not get it to work in the way they wanted. Of course full ADAS is not compatible with the current steering setup of the V6. As they pushed ahead with the development of the car minus ADAS, further changes especially in the ECU and electronics may have sent them down a one-way street, meaning that retrofitting elements of ADAS is not possible.

But this does not explain why European/ROW Type Approval has been achieved. This next paragraph is purely conjecture and I have no evidence for it, but I do have life experience of this type of situation. I think this may be human factors. As I mentioned in a previous post, my career before I retired was in a very highly regulated environment, government inspectors watched our every move. Part of my role was maintaining relationships with these inspectors and some of them were very challenging. I can easily see a situation where an inspector has taken it upon themselves to give Lotus a hard time, either in the hope they will make a name for themselves, or perhaps because they have fallen out with whoever is responsible for managing the relationship. I know that this may sound a little far fetched, but I saw this with my own eyes and managed this kind of thing on a daily basis

With EU/ROW approval being a completely separate process and of course different sets of inspectors, this problem that I describe would not occur.

I have said with previous things I have written, that I hope I am wrong, in fact, I would be delighted to be wrong and if I am I will apologise. I still want my Emira (despite a voice in my head saying Alpine A110), I want Lotus to continue to be a successful UK manufacturer providing jobs for many on site and supporting many more families, jobs, industry and commerce in their supply chain. I just wish they would be truthful with us.

I, in a far less technical and eloquent way , and from a different angle, indicated this could be the case weeks ago, re UK approvals being behind the whole fiasco, just highlighting don't believe all you are told, even by Lotus! Go live in South America for a while and you will see how far that idea gets you... haha

Individual approvals can take several weeks to get, especially around Sept 1!!! as kit car owners can testify! Then to send away for the V5 after this process can also take quite a while..... my nomad took 8 weeks (not normal) and I had driven it 1500 mils across the EU before I knew the V5 had been rejected... another story.

As I indicated to Lotus marketing personnel this morning, its one thing Harry getting his car before 300 odd other initial deposit payers, who would then be very closely followed in delivery, but its a whole other thing him and one or two others getting a unicorn car and then for the rest of us to be left out in the cold, with NO car and NO info, this I find absolutely out of ORDER and I watch all of Harrys channels. I'd even watch his "getting old as a married couple" channel if there was one. But fair is fair and this isn't!

What is the bet the approvals wont be mentioned in any email which comes around good friday (except it wont be a good friday will it). People talk about lotus being honest and Harry's G video showing a new side to them, more communicative, really, REALLY? I personally think they are hiding as much as they possibly can get away with; the UK situation was NOT explained at ALL!!! Instead of being honest and owning the situation, being a (wo)man about it and taking a fresh clean start, it was a complete wish wash Truss / Boris / Lib Dem / Labour / Republican / Democratic doge (yes they all do it).
If no cars until next year, fine, then no car for the sept 99 or Harry or shixxy, no bugger should get their cars at all in the UK (Yes Im being mean today!). Let's do things right from now on and give me my damn car first..and screw the rest haha... no, this is exactly my point. It shouldn't be like this!!

I didnt begrudge people getting their cars before me in theory, as long as our cars are coming thereafter (I didnt say soon) Having said that, I can honestly say hand on heart, if Lotus called me tomorrow and said I and a few others can have our cars next week, out of order, I would tell them NO, thats not fair and I will give my place to those who are in order, Scruffs, Tome and whoever is in front of me, thats the right thing to do, which Lotus need to start doing themselves! Each to their own, but I now think they need to readdress their approach, which they wont.
Yes they can say we dont have the bits for Tome's car, but for 30 / 40 people they can make a few damn phone calls and compromise. They can ask these 30/40 people would you take your car without a lazy arse garage opener, something we can fit later at your convenience? I would hope some people on here are not so hung up on break calliper colour or black pack lower / higher to wait 3 4 months more and would just take the damn car, BUT at least give them the chance to decide whether they will give up their place for such s stupid anomaly, DONT TAKE THEIR DAMN PLACE FROM THEM from pure laziness as these details are not complicated for a limited number to alter.
Im now at 75%, upon receiving a Q1 wish washy email on "any given sunday / friday" and no Emira for me, no car is worth this dishonest and mind blowingly awful customer service failings, from the top it all starts. Ive driven the car and I repeat, NO car is worth this. I have my Caterham to come in 9/10 months and have had more honest and genuine communication with them in 4 weeks than I have had with lotus in around 2 years!

DIsclaimer: Everything re approvals above and dishonestly from Lotus could be absolute crap, but when you dont have the actual info, you tend to make up crap in your head, in fact I do that with or without the info. However, I still think they should come clean and start again and treat people fairly, even those who have annoyed them by speaking freely, which in our society, we can still just about, fortunately do. Looking forward to them email

 

[Mistral]

I, in a far less technical and eloquent way , and from a different angle, indicated this could be the case weeks ago, re UK approvals being behind the whole fiasco, just highlighting don't believe all you are told, even by Lotus! Go live in South America for a while and you will see how far that idea gets you... haha

Individual approvals can take several weeks to get, especially around Sept 1!!! as kit car owners can testify! Then to send away for the V5 after this process can also take quite a while..... my nomad took 8 weeks (not normal) and I had driven it 1500 mils across the EU before I knew the V5 had been rejected... another story.

As I indicated to Lotus marketing personnel this morning, its one thing Harry getting his car before 300 odd other initial deposit payers, who would then be very closely followed in delivery, but its a whole other thing him and one or two others getting a unicorn car and then for the rest of us to be left out in the cold, with NO car and NO info, this I find absolutely out of ORDER and I watch all of Harrys channels. I'd even watch his "getting old as a married couple" channel if there was one. But fair is fair and this isn't!

What is the bet the approvals wont be mentioned in any email which comes around good friday (except it wont be a good friday will it). People talk about lotus being honest and Harry's G video showing a new side to them, more communicative, really, REALLY? I personally think they are hiding as much as they possibly can get away with; the UK situation was NOT explained at ALL!!! Instead of being honest and owning the situation, being a (wo)man about it and taking a fresh clean start, it was a complete wish wash Truss / Boris / Lib Dem / Labour / Republican / Democratic doge (yes they all do it).
If no cars until next year, fine, then no car for the sept 99 or Harry or shixxy, no bugger should get their cars at all in the UK (Yes Im being mean today!). Let's do things right from now on and give me my damn car first..and screw the rest haha... no, this is exactly my point. It shouldn't be like this!!

I didnt begrudge people getting their cars before me in theory, as long as our cars are coming thereafter (I didnt say soon) Having said that, I can honestly say hand on heart, if Lotus called me tomorrow and said I and a few others can have our cars next week, out of order, I would tell them NO, thats not fair and I will give my place to those who are in order, Scruffs, Tome and whoever is in front of me, thats the right thing to do, which Lotus need to start doing themselves! Each to their own, but I now think they need to readdress their approach, which they wont.
Yes they can say we dont have the bits for Tome's car, but for 30 / 40 people they can make a few damn phone calls and compromise. They can ask these 30/40 people would you take your car without a lazy arse garage opener, something we can fit later at your convenience? I would hope some people on here are not so hung up on break calliper colour or black pack lower / higher to wait 3 4 months more and would just take the damn car, BUT at least give them the chance to decide whether they will give up their place for such s stupid anomaly, DONT TAKE THEIR DAMN PLACE FROM THEM from pure laziness as these details are not complicated for a limited number to alter.
Im now at 75%, upon receiving a Q1 wish washy email on "any given sunday / friday" and no Emira for me, no car is worth this dishonest and mind blowingly awful customer service failings, from the top it all starts. Ive driven the car and I repeat, NO car is worth this. I have my Caterham to come in 9/10 months and have had more honest and genuine communication with them in 4 weeks than I have had with lotus in around 2 years!

DIsclaimer: Everything re approvals above and dishonestly from Lotus could be absolute crap, but when you dont have the actual info, you tend to make up crap in your head, in fact I do that with or without the info. However, I still think they should come clean and start again and treat people fairly, even those who have annoyed them by speaking freely, which in our society, we can still just about, fortunately do. Looking forward to them email

You're clearly irritated today aren't you? I had my day yesterday but have got past it. I agree with much of what you say but I really wouldn't count on there being a change in approach from Lotus. It just isn't going to happen.

 

[emiraspain]

You're clearly irritated today aren't you? I had my day yesterday but have got past it. I agree with much of what you say but I really wouldn't count on there being a change in approach from Lotus. It just isn't going to happen.

agreed, they wont change and far less so due to what we say.

on the harry G video, I get the impression Matt does not control production at all.... maybe just me, but production should do what sales tell them, not what they themselves decide and both should do what overall Matt tells them, through the staff he is boss of, but there does not seem to be coherency here....

All irrelevant and as you say, it wont change this year and maybe not even next.... There will be other nice cars coming out in the future with less hassle and with a futuristic engine /workings and interior to go with their futuristic design, so I am relatively chilled. Im not 50 yet and my 2 dogs would never have fitted in anyway, no matter how much I tried.. haha

 

[Tonyshepp]

Every week a 3 year old vantage is getting closer to 80k - my bench car for now. If the Emira isn't, no matter it being new, as good as a 3 year old Vantage I'll buy the Vantage.
Depreciation for both cars at this point will be broadly the same.
It may be that there isn't a rush to test drive the Emira now as i cant see my predicted November delivery being met until sometime in early 2023.

 

[emiraspain]

Every week a 3 year old vantage is getting closer to 80k - my bench car for now. If the Emira isn't, no matter it being new, as good as a 3 year old Vantage I'll buy the Vantage.
Depreciation for both cars at this point will be broadly the same.
It may be that there isn't a rush to test drive the Emira now as i cant see my predicted November delivery being met until sometime in early 2023.

yes... although now 4 year old..2018 no? they are under 90k, but not down to 80 yet... but will get there.

I have to say the vantage looks great and IMO looks more classy and expensive than the Emira, but the Emira looks more "sporty" if that makes sense. Both very good designs, both with crappy outdated interiors, but the Vantage has 34 cows in there with you so you would feel as if it more value for money.

The noise.. no comparison.....

yes, for me too this car, used, is a competitor, but its apples and oranges again.... 120k car vs 60k...

Onwership costs will be higher though!


*I think guys on here in similar regions should form a car club and buy 5 6 cars between them and share them... Just saying...... 20 guys put 80k each - 1.6 million for 7 cars.... gives you a while new window..and not many on here will daily them.

 

[Tonyshepp]

yes... although now 4 year old..2018 no? they are under 90k, but not down to 80 yet... but will get there.

I have to say the vantage looks great and IMO looks more classy and expensive than the Emira, but the Emira looks more "sporty" if that makes sense. Both very good designs, both with crappy outdated interiors, but the Vantage has 34 cows in there with you so you would feel as if it more value for money.

The noise.. no comparison.....

yes, for me too this car, used, is a competitor, but its apples and oranges again.... 120k car vs 60k...

Onwership costs will be higher though!


*I think guys on here in similar regions should form a car club and buy 5 6 cars between them and share them... Just saying...... 20 guys put 80k each - 1.6 million for 7 cars.... gives you a while new window..and not many on here will daily them.

All very true but in car brand top trumps Aston ranks above Lotus - perhaps alongside or close to Bentley.

 

[emiraspain]

All very true but in car brand top trumps Aston ranks above Lotus - perhaps alongside or close to Bentley.

yes..aston..... dream brand..... apart from some dodgy recent years, tops everything in reality... they just need to get modern info enter. systems from mercedes and reduce weight, but the badge is gold

 

[Lotustoronto]

I, in a far less technical and eloquent way , and from a different angle, indicated this could be the case weeks ago, re UK approvals being behind the whole fiasco, just highlighting don't believe all you are told, even by Lotus! Go live in South America for a while and you will see how far that idea gets you... haha

Individual approvals can take several weeks to get, especially around Sept 1!!! as kit car owners can testify! Then to send away for the V5 after this process can also take quite a while..... my nomad took 8 weeks (not normal) and I had driven it 1500 mils across the EU before I knew the V5 had been rejected... another story.

As I indicated to Lotus marketing personnel this morning, its one thing Harry getting his car before 300 odd other initial deposit payers, who would then be very closely followed in delivery, but its a whole other thing him and one or two others getting a unicorn car and then for the rest of us to be left out in the cold, with NO car and NO info, this I find absolutely out of ORDER and I watch all of Harrys channels. I'd even watch his "getting old as a married couple" channel if there was one. But fair is fair and this isn't!

What is the bet the approvals wont be mentioned in any email which comes around good friday (except it wont be a good friday will it). People talk about lotus being honest and Harry's G video showing a new side to them, more communicative, really, REALLY? I personally think they are hiding as much as they possibly can get away with; the UK situation was NOT explained at ALL!!! Instead of being honest and owning the situation, being a (wo)man about it and taking a fresh clean start, it was a complete wish wash Truss / Boris / Lib Dem / Labour / Republican / Democratic doge (yes they all do it).
If no cars until next year, fine, then no car for the sept 99 or Harry or shixxy, no bugger should get their cars at all in the UK (Yes Im being mean today!). Let's do things right from now on and give me my damn car first..and screw the rest haha... no, this is exactly my point. It shouldn't be like this!!

I didnt begrudge people getting their cars before me in theory, as long as our cars are coming thereafter (I didnt say soon) Having said that, I can honestly say hand on heart, if Lotus called me tomorrow and said I and a few others can have our cars next week, out of order, I would tell them NO, thats not fair and I will give my place to those who are in order, Scruffs, Tome and whoever is in front of me, thats the right thing to do, which Lotus need to start doing themselves! Each to their own, but I now think they need to readdress their approach, which they wont.
Yes they can say we dont have the bits for Tome's car, but for 30 / 40 people they can make a few damn phone calls and compromise. They can ask these 30/40 people would you take your car without a lazy arse garage opener, something we can fit later at your convenience? I would hope some people on here are not so hung up on break calliper colour or black pack lower / higher to wait 3 4 months more and would just take the damn car, BUT at least give them the chance to decide whether they will give up their place for such s stupid anomaly, DONT TAKE THEIR DAMN PLACE FROM THEM from pure laziness as these details are not complicated for a limited number to alter.
Im now at 75%, upon receiving a Q1 wish washy email on "any given sunday / friday" and no Emira for me, no car is worth this dishonest and mind blowingly awful customer service failings, from the top it all starts. Ive driven the car and I repeat, NO car is worth this. I have my Caterham to come in 9/10 months and have had more honest and genuine communication with them in 4 weeks than I have had with lotus in around 2 years!

DIsclaimer: Everything re approvals above and dishonestly from Lotus could be absolute crap, but when you dont have the actual info, you tend to make up crap in your head, in fact I do that with or without the info. However, I still think they should come clean and start again and treat people fairly, even those who have annoyed them by speaking freely, which in our society, we can still just about, fortunately do. Looking forward to them email

The purchasing of this Emira, is by far the most disappointing sports car buying experience I have ever had. I agree with our English/Spanish living friend. I don't even live in the UK obviously, but I just couldn't see any other manufacturer exporting to ROW and leaving it's local, supportive and true enthusiasts out in the cold.

Imagine Chevy started exporting corvette's before local American Corvette owners got them..... they would storm the factory like they did the capital back in February lol!

 

[Mistral]

All very true but in car brand top trumps Aston ranks above Lotus - perhaps alongside or close to Bentley.

They have history in the Bertelli era when vintage Bentleys were winning Le Mans in the late 20s, but not in the same class. Also the David Brown era in the mid to late 50s when they ran and won in the premier class. Just as with Bentley they've teetered on the verge of bankruptcy for a long time too.

 

[Lotustoronto]

All very true but in car brand top trumps Aston ranks above Lotus - perhaps alongside or close to Bentley.

I love Aston's... our used Aston prices aren't as good as the UK's tho.... I would take a vantage happily.

 

[Den]

*I think guys on here in similar regions should form a car club and buy 5 6 cars between them and share them... Just saying...... 20 guys put 80k each - 1.6 million for 7 cars.... gives you a while new window..and not many on here will daily them.

Yes, good idea, and I think they all should be kept at my house

 

[emiraspain]

The purchasing of this Emira, is by far the most disappointing sports car buying experience I have ever had. I agree with our English/Spanish living friend. I don't even live in the UK obviously, but I just couldn't see any other manufacturer exporting to ROW and leaving it's local, supportive and true enthusiasts out in the cold.

Imagine Chevy started exporting corvette's before local American Corvette owners got them..... they would storm the factory like they did the capital back in February lol!

yes or at least explain honestly to the buggers why... haha

 

[emiraspain]

They have history in the Bertelli era when vintage Bentleys were winning Le Mans in the late 20s, but not in the same class. Also the David Brown era in the mid to late 50s when they ran and won in the premier class. Just as with Bentley they've teetered on the verge of bankruptcy for a long time too.

ive driven a david brown.. when i was about 9.... it was a tractor though, but looked good in white

 

[Mistral]

ive driven a david brown.. when i was about 9.... it was a tractor though, but looked good in white

Well, Brown was a tractor magnate who bought Aston for a song, I think late 40s, but needed an engine for the cars he envisaged, so bought Lagonda, which WO Bentley had led the design team to build a 2.5L engine for, later increased to 3L.

The tractors I drove in my early teens didn't have that provenance! I worked on a farm on Sunday mornings, aged 12 or 13, put the tractor into low first and aimed it diagonally across the meadow whilst I shovelled feed off the trailer for the cows. They probably wouldn't allow that now...........

 

[Green]

I just scheduled my test drive for next Friday at Lotus of Boston. I will be driving my R8 to the test drive so I can do a back to back comparison. Should be interesting test. Excited to see car in person and drive my first Lotus.

 

[VL3X]

Imagine Chevy started exporting corvette's before local American Corvette owners got them..... they would storm the factory like they did the capital back in February lol!

Man that's not even funny. Such an embarrassment.