Anyone received their 30 day notification yet?

[digilotus]

Money should definitely be talking right now with all the cancelled deposits…!

But they’re probably writing off that data as being related to current world economic factors and impact of production delays rather than mediocre and inconsistent customer service that has pushed people elsewhere when they got fed up with it all.

 

[emiraspain]

Counterstrike...Valve never made their planned re-lease date. It created one of the most iconic companies ever. Do your research and you will find how cool it is for true passionate people to not be bothered by dead-lines, but just release when the product is ready and GOOD!

I am waiting for Emira... and yes the longing increases, yet I don't get all the people that are pissing about 3-6 months delay. FFS...how much is 3 months in a life-time!? Give these guys a brake and hope they make us a good car. You all are screaming for managers and consultants to come in to fix things (and kill the Lotus DNA at the same time)! I don't...I like Lotus for being different and still run by enthousiasts.

Be more in romantic...use the time waiting for Emira to spent with your partner...or get the divorce and move on in life before the car is there. Much better use of time than complaining about delivery time.

3 months is nothing...this is very true, but its spring to november at best and this again is not the issue. The issue is its not so romantic (I claim copyrights on the word).... to get to your long awaited dream of a threesome only to find one of the other two present is also a guy.... ie you are getting screwed. This is how we feel, or most of us on here, by top management and CS boss.
The car is also, IMHO, not iconic. It's not the big "leap" forward everyone expects, but a decent step, although not in all directions. The reviews are all true as I have said before. After 2 hours with the car I like it, but in summary, if I knew I would have had to wait 18 months for it from deposit, and being made to feel less important than an Irish navvie, after the work was done, I would have made other plans and waited until the base edition and initial kinks were sorted...... and each day that goes by, I wonder and wonder..... as do many others.
I also make no excuses for the enthusiasts that work there, those that have not left to go to Mclaren and elsewhere. I have been enthusiastic in my own company, when I had it, probably more so than most Lotus employees, but I never treated customers in this fashion, and if I did, I wouldn't be buying a Lotus Emira, instead I would be buying a Lotus Eclat *sorry to eclat owners, but that is one ugly car, as I simply would not have the money to do so.

 

[ksegg]

Like I said before, I feel like this is a scam more and more every day. My deposit is NON-REFUNDABLE, and it's feeling like I bought into a volatile "investment" where I'm going to lose my money because there's no actual product.

Someone convince me that I'm not paranoid.

 

[Lotustoronto]

Like I said before, I feel like this is a scam more and more every day. My deposit is NON-REFUNDABLE, and it's feeling like I bought into a volatile "investment" where I'm going to lose my money because there's no actual product.

Someone convince me that I'm not paranoid.

Are you going to Log 41? If not you should absolutely sign up and make your way out there. It's an 8 hour trek, but it may be a special occasion to get some answers and drive the Emira. I am about the same distance from you to there and I am considering it... or wait till it gets to my dealer in 2 months at decide then.

 

[lynchy73]

When any brand in any industry is looking for growth like Lotus currently is, they need to have a few items to make it work.

1. Something different, innovative or representative of good value / far superior to the competition.
2. The process/capital in place to produce the item. (this can be attained, if the product is extremely innovative / better than what is currently out there)
3. Above average customer service and EXTREMELY STRONG marketing
4. Ability to commit and follow through on timelines, or over achieve those deadlines. Basically adequate trained staff to finish projects and product. (parts shortage affecting timelines from COVID not withstanding, speaking in general here)

To have the best chance of success you need all four. However you can also be successful if two out of the four are done in a superior manner to your competitors.

If your Geely, they already have number 2... So which of the other 3 options have they chosen to forgo? Also, is the Emira/Electre innovative enough, or superior enough to the Cayman, C8, M2 or Tesla Model X, Rivian R1S, Hummer EV, or new EV SUV coming from other manufacturers? If you say no to that question, then they do not have a choice but to deliver on points 3 and 4. Also want to point out that Marketing is almost MORE important than CS. I am sure there is a few other items needed, but without those, the chance of success is pretty much zero. I can't see how you can penetrate market share lacking in any of those areas.

Geely might want to see revenue pumping in, but they are also smart enough to see what is happening from the outside in. Imagine being the CEO of Geely, seeing the Emira reviews, the fact they are delayed 7 months delivering customer cars (maybe longer), burning through cash, still LESS than HALF the subscribers to YT than Polestar (an EV startup with no history... it's actually difficult if your Lotus to achieve that btw). I am positive that the board room meetings are getting a little warmer than before.

On the flip side, customer pre-orders are still VERY strong, potential for good revenue is there and clearly worth the struggle for Geely. Lotus made a great looking car in a price point that caused a lot of people to take notice, more so than the Evija. Kudos to them. The designers and engineers deserve some praise and Geely as well for giving life to Emira and future Lotus products.

Well said!

I do think things will work out with the Emira and the future Lotus models. On Forums we can easily get caught up in the details, frustrations can build/echo, people can feel slighted etc. Those that spend a lot of time on Forums tend to be more particular and even a bit OCD (myself included) compared to the average consumer.

I do feel things will improve significantly once cars start to be delivered. It’s got to be hugely challenging to keep your shit together as a senior in Lotus right now, not to mention being a customer service representative… Pressure from every angle and having complex supply issues to navigate. In such circumstances things will be prioritised, some mistakes will be made and individuals may get pissed off/tired/worn out. Given a little time, I’m confident things will work out ok with Lotus.

At the end of the day, this is a 2 seater luxury item to add to a multiple car garage for many buyers. A 3/6/9 month delay in our cars arriving will have very little impact to most buyers lives, but it is having/ will cause lots of problems for Lotus (which I am sure they are fully aware of).

 

[Maurice R]

Like I said before, I feel like this is a scam more and more every day. My deposit is NON-REFUNDABLE, and it's feeling like I bought into a volatile "investment" where I'm going to lose my money because there's no actual product.

Someone convince me that I'm not paranoid.

Don’t be paranoid. The cars will be here eventually. Stay positive.
The only scam is the dealership you placed your deposit at. My deposit is fully refundable until I get notified the my car is actually in production.

 

[lynchy73]

IMPO Lotus (and most if not all car manufacturers) are making the same fundamental mistake.

They (Car makers) still seem to be holding on tight to the JIT (just in time) method of production. Obviously this approach is gonna fall over pretty quickly with the slightest of disruptions in the supply chain or logistics. It only needs the simplest of parts to be late to hold up production. They really need to adjust their thinking and approach in what is now the new normal. They need to identify the key parts and get stock in sooner and make choices regards what might be relatively low cost for example, but is absolutely key. Sure it’s less “efficient”, but long delays and cancellations cost too. The what if (and likelihoods of that what if) needs to be in the equation when they schedule parts production/delivery.

Personally we run a small manufacturing company and ensuring we have stock to maintain production is our main priority in the last 2 years. No matter if that means changing/adjusting the product before we run out of a key component or maintaining a level of stock that will cover us for the unexpected issues that will come sooner or later. Nothing worse than having a small part shortage that might interrupt production. Whatever you can do to mitigate and foresee possible problems, you must do.

The problems with chip shortages in Cars is largely a result of the car maker’s (short sighted actions/strict adherence to the JIT system) actions in 2020 when they stopped buying Chips at the first sign of a downturn, rather than continuing to purchase, but at maybe reduced quantity (the Chip makers moved production to where the market/money went and no longer had the spare capacity to switch back when they started to order again). The car makers got spoilt with everything working like clockwork, if they don’t adjust to the new normal, others car makers will/have started to already.

 

[Scruff111S]

As someone who's very excited for the 135, this is something I've also been slowly realizing lately...

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but you can guarantee that 135 will not be delivered in the time line as prescribed by Lotus.

 

[EspritGuy]

IMPO Lotus (and most if not all car manufacturers) are making the same fundamental mistake.

They (Car makers) still seem to be holding on tight to the JIT (just in time) method of production. Obviously this approach is gonna fall over pretty quickly with the slightest of disruptions in the supply chain or logistics. It only needs the simplest of parts to be late to hold up production. They really need to adjust their thinking and approach in what is now the new normal. They need to identify the key parts and get stock in sooner and make choices regards what might be relatively low cost for example, but is absolutely key. Sure it’s less “efficient”, but long delays and cancellations cost too. The what if (and likelihoods of that what if) needs to be in the equation when they schedule parts production/delivery.

Personally we run a small manufacturing company and ensuring we have stock to maintain production is our main priority in the last 2 years. No matter if that means changing/adjusting the product before we run out of a key component or maintaining a level of stock that will cover us for the unexpected issues that will come sooner or later. Nothing worse than having a small part shortage that might interrupt production. Whatever you can do to mitigate and foresee possible problems, you must do.

The problems with chip shortages in Cars is largely a result of the car maker’s (short sighted actions/strict adherence to the JIT system) actions in 2020 when they stopped buying Chips at the first sign of a downturn, rather than continuing to purchase, but at maybe reduced quantity (the Chip makers moved production to where the market/money went and no longer had the spare capacity to switch back when they started to order again). The car makers got spoilt with everything working like clockwork, if they don’t adjust to the new normal, others car makers will/have started to already.

My perspective is that
Production is well underway: production of skepticism, angst and disillusionment in the face of shortages. Shortages in contact, updates and goodwill.
We've been told it's 'Worth the wait,' so that premise is in testing too.
#Kept-in-the'-Dark

 

[TomE]

Out of sight out of mind. Probably got another 24 months unless CX changes for the better. Crazy. Really don't know why they aren't accountable now

Lotus have a ready-made response for any internal or external challenge:

• Poor customer experience and comms? "Look at the two year order book"
• UK dealers out of the loop and frustrated? "Look at the two year order book"
• New D2C model not working as it should? "Look at the two year order book"
• Mixed press reviews? "Look at the two year order book"
• Delays to first customer cars? "Look at the two year order book"
• More cancellations? "Look at the two year order book"
• People asking to defer into 2023? "Look at the two year order book"
• Problems with completing i4 development? "Look at the two year order book"

I'm sure Geely are focused on revenue, so the emphasis will be on getting cars out and increasing production rates. The strong order book means Lotus can ignore a lot of these other issues. At least until test drives and feedback from early customers.

The other question for Geely to ask is "why isn't it a three year order book and how do you ramp up to 15k cars per year as soon as possible?"

 

[Leonard]

Lotus have a ready-made response for any internal or external challenge:

• Poor customer experience and comms? "Look at the two year order book"
• UK dealers out of the loop and frustrated? "Look at the two year order book"
• New D2C model not working as it should? "Look at the two year order book"
• Mixed press reviews? "Look at the two year order book"
• Delays to first customer cars? "Look at the two year order book"
• More cancellations? "Look at the two year order book"
• People asking to defer into 2023? "Look at the two year order book"
• Problems with completing i4 development? "Look at the two year order book"

I'm sure Geely are focused on revenue, so the emphasis will be on getting cars out and increasing production rates. The strong order book means Lotus can ignore a lot of these other issues. At least until test drives and feedback from early customers

The other question for Geely to ask is "why isn't it a three year order book and how do you ramp up to 15k cars per year as soon as possible?"

Agreed. But all very well until cars start coming back for warranty and servicing and the experience is shocking entirely lacking.
Then word will get out and they are the new British Alfa Romeo (sorry Alfa) Good looks alone only carries you so far in life! Just ask @emiraspain

 

[TomE]

I don't know how many heads of departments were at Goodwood because I wasn't there, but the reports from those who went, were that the interactions were good.

So Matt is accountable to the financial backers who've put up the money to fund everything. Who would have guessed?

It is what it is right now. Let's see what happens once cars are in production and being shipped. Once revenue starts coming in, we might see some changes; changes that have been in the planning stages but haven't been rolled out yet. If not? Well then, Lotus is just a manufacturer and not a social club. That would obviously not work for some of you, but for the vast majority who have deposits, they'd probably be okay with that. Most people just want the car and that's what they're in it for.

I heard a few months ago there were changes being planned around the customer experience. But it is focused on the POST sale CX, not PRE sale. That seems to me like the wrong emphasis. Post-sale CX might retain people as owners (but they've already paid for the car) and could lead to sales of EVs in future, which is clearly part of Geely's strategy. But a poor pre-sale CX means lost customers now.

If you think Lotus is "just a manufacturer and not a social club" then you've missed what they've been saying and doing around Lotus Community, #MyLotus and #uslot, fronted by several senior Lotus people.

The Lotus Story | Lotus Cars United Kingdom

By remaining true to the ethos of founder Colin Chapman, Lotus stands alone as a brand dedicated to pure drivers' cars.

www.lotuscars.com

 

[TomE]

Correct It's not Matt. But I cannot fathom why those that DO have the control over CX aren't accountable.
Some weird historical power plays at play at 'new' Lotus for sure.
My CEO would have ripped this senior management team a new one a LONG time ago. Excuse my French

See my post above about order book. It's easy to divert attention from CX and sales when production and supply chain have major challenges. Customers dropping out? Look at the supply issues and delivery delays and the world economic situation, that must be why people are cancelling.

As I've said before, I also think there's an element of "emperor's new clothes" about the move to a direct to customer model. The successes of firms like Tesla (where Matt worked) and Polestar (a sister Geely company) justify the change - and longer term it feels like the right direction. But we're seeing the execution of it has some significant gaps. Pointing those out is seen as out of line. And at the moment the gaps are either discounted as teething problems or "coming soon", or are masked by the "look at my order book" response.

 

[Leonard]

I heard a few months ago there were changes being planned around the customer experience. But it is focused on the POST sale CX, not PRE sale. That seems to me like the wrong emphasis. Post-sale CX might retain people as owners (but they've already paid for the car) and could lead to sales of EVs in future, which is clearly part of Geely's strategy. But a poor pre-sale CX means lost customers now.

If you think Lotus is "just a manufacturer and not a social club" then you've missed what they've been saying and doing around Lotus Community, #MyLotus and #uslot, fronted by several senior Lotus people.

The Lotus Story | Lotus Cars United Kingdom

By remaining true to the ethos of founder Colin Chapman, Lotus stands alone as a brand dedicated to pure drivers' cars.

www.lotuscars.com

You are right I have missed that. Why haven't they been emailing any of that content..

 

[TomE]

That may be what it is for you, but apparently somebody who has control doesn't feel that way about it at this time, and that somebody may not be Matt. Based on my experiences with large corporations, this has money stamped all over it, but we'll see soon enough. If the customer experience you and others are looking for suddenly blossoms right after cars start getting shipped, you'll know why. If not, then there are some seriously clueless people in positions at Lotus that they shouldn't be in.

Quoting this for us to come back to after cars start getting shipped. I'll wager there will be no sudden improvement in pre-sale customer experience. They've had 9 months and a team of people responsible, who aren't involved in getting cars built and shipped. Things started to look more positive in June just before Goodwood, but it's faltered now.

 

[emiraspain]

Agreed. But all very well until cars start coming back for warranty and servicing and the experience is shocking entirely lacking.
Then word will get out and they are the new British Alfa Romeo (sorry Alfa) Good looks alone only carries you so far in life! Just ask @emiraspain

I am still pretty hot, its only age and stupidity holding me back now from being successful .....

 

[Eagle7]

Quoting this for us to come back to after cars start getting shipped. I'll wager there will be no sudden improvement in pre-sale customer experience. They've had 9 months and a team of people responsible, who aren't involved in getting cars built and shipped. Things started to look more positive in June just before Goodwood, but it's faltered now.

Anything anybody does is going to cost money; money that may be getting diverted to putting everything into getting cars into production. Matt said they're going to hold to the original quoted pricing for those who had already placed their orders, but it's not hard to imagine that internal costs have gone up. Shipping costs have gone up. Supplier(s) are probably having the same issues, and once that starts to happen, it tends to ripple on down the line. If they're paying to air freight things in? That is definitely NOT what they were originally budgeted for. Every increase in internal costs is money coming from Geely, not from sales revenue because they don't have anything to sell yet. They need more than deposits and orders; they need completed sales revenue.

Nine months and counting of no revenue because they don't have a finished product to sell yet. There isn't going to be ANY customer sale experience; pre or post unless cars start to get completed and shipped. You or I may feel like there's no reason why they can't do what we want, but somebody in charge of the money appears to feel differently.

Under these conditions, EVERYONE at the company is involved in getting cars built and shipped because they have NO INCOME at the moment and haven't the entire year. ANY money spent anywhere at the company has to come from Geely and investors, who it appears don't want to spend anything on anything else except getting cars produced so they can get the revenue stream started. The internal costs for doing that are going up by the week, possibly by the day, but they aren't going to pass that on to the entire first year production run. You have to know those cost breakdown spreadsheets are getting scrutinized daily.

Right wrong or indifferent, it sure looks like a money issue to me at the moment.

If these people you're referring to have been planning and wanting to do things for the last 9 months, but may not have been given the green light to do it, once revenue starts coming in that should be the green light. If nothing changes, we'll know there's something else going on, but from what you and others say who've interacted with these same people, it sounds to me like they're being held back for the time being. We'll know one way or the other soon enough.

 

[ksegg]

Lotus have a ready-made response for any internal or external challenge:

• Poor customer experience and comms? "Look at the two year order book"
• UK dealers out of the loop and frustrated? "Look at the two year order book"
• New D2C model not working as it should? "Look at the two year order book"
• Mixed press reviews? "Look at the two year order book"
• Delays to first customer cars? "Look at the two year order book"
• More cancellations? "Look at the two year order book"
• People asking to defer into 2023? "Look at the two year order book"
• Problems with completing i4 development? "Look at the two year order book"

I'm sure Geely are focused on revenue, so the emphasis will be on getting cars out and increasing production rates. The strong order book means Lotus can ignore a lot of these other issues. At least until test drives and feedback from early customers.

The other question for Geely to ask is "why isn't it a three year order book and how do you ramp up to 15k cars per year as soon as possible?"

lol 15K cars per year.

They're struggling to make 15 cars..........per year at this point.

 

[Scruff111S]

Just got back from touring local car dealers. Porsche, McLaren and Jaguar. Very nice cars. Interestingly, if I ordered a Jaguar F Type today, I could expect delivery in 6 months. I think this is slightly quicker than the 3 years I have been waiting for the Emira.

 

[Leonard]

Just got back from touring local car dealers. Porsche, McLaren and Jaguar. Very nice cars. Interestingly, if I ordered a Jaguar F Type today, I could expect delivery in 6 months. I think this is slightly quicker than the 3 years I have been waiting for the Emira.

I do really like the new Ftype. Everything I consider all of the sum of the parts, the ownership experience and residuals, it always comes back to Porsche though....