Jethro addresses 'the review'

Not sure if this has been posted elsewhere. Just catching up with my EVO reading and saw Jethro addresses the claims of Porsche bias and corruption!
I think he just called YOU a nutter

 

[Leonard]

What would be the benefit to Lotus? They wouldn't save a dime in production process or build costs by doing so, the hardware is identical.

I think you've let the delays and comms failures frustrate you into cynicism. Which is fair, I mean I've been frustrated too. But I'm keeping my rational hat on as much as possible and on that basis am still extending Lotus the benefit of the doubt regarding the product itself.

If we do finally get a back-to-back dyno test of the two complete production drivetrains and it shows a materially lower state of tune with a reduction in torque over the full range compared to the equivalent Evora, I'll be very surprised and disappointed. But I genuinely don't expect that to be the case.

By the way I say that as someone who has done dyno tuning of engine management systems in a professional context myself, both with custom reflash technologies and on full standalone motorsport ECMs. That certainly doesn't give my opinion any additional weight, because we don't have actual data. But on the basis of my experience, I would be shocked if the Emira is able to perform at the level that it is doing while handicapped by the extra weight that it is carrying, if the state of tune was actually lower than what was delivered on the last drivetrain-equivalent models of the Evora.

Because of the demand and matching power to weight with the 718 GTS.
They don't need to give us more power and it it does make for a more tractable global car.
That remap can be saved for one or even two 410 and 430 mid and end life models to maximise profit and put bums on seats over the short lifetime of the car.
Yup its been a journey the last 12 months. But i dont think thats blinkered me. Increased weight and decreased performance over the Evora does leave me feeling short changed and disappointed for this last 'for the drivers' ICE Lotus product. I guess time and first drives will tell whether its enough.

 

[emiraspain]

uffff, as the song says, Its Getting Hot in Here!!!!

I will make some points, useless as they may be, but I will make them none the less.
1. I am surprised some people are here at all, as its pretty clear they either want, expect or believe that Lotus will or have already failed with the Emira, which is quite unfair. I can clearly see some rational thinking behind this feeling, but if Lotus and their car are so bad, well dont buy one, move on, and leave us day dream "believers" here to Monkey around alone.
2. I dont think anyone on here is stating that what Jethro said is actually incorrect, his video I refer to, not this article, which is just a poke at his haters and means nothing to anyone really (but thanks for sharing Leonard haha), he gets paid for writing and so he wrote, not much more to say about it, 5 mins of my life wasted (thanks again Leonard ). There is nothing of importance in his article, but actually, do McDonalds ice cream machines always break in the summer? I think that's as much of a leap as the rest of his comments, none of which are that funny.
3. I may be wrong, but even the staunchest of Lotus fans on here dont really disagree with what he said, we ALL know this engine is OLD, we all know the gear box is not as good as many cars out there, BUT they are both characterful and some of us, in fact most of us, do, or will like them a lot. Maybe I am the only one, but Porsches gear boxes to me are NOT the most amazing thing out there, but I guess its just me. The thing is, the crux of it for many of us, even forgetting the lack of permissions and underhand way things were done according to those in the know, Tom, was Jethro's tone, simple as that. He gave the review as if he had sat on, and broken an egg on the seat, and it was slowly seeping into the xxxx of his trousers as the review went on, and worse still, he blames Lotus for it.
4. The reviews, all of them, are about perspective and none of them actually seem to match with Lotus's own perspective. Yes they have the slogan, "for the drivers", which is a bit tacky, as are the launches, but they are trying something new and they are just words, although the steering feel at least matches those words in virtually all reviews and that for me is one of the 3 main factors in a car (engine noise and gear box being the others ooops).
5. My point from 4 is, which I will now make in 5. just to confuse myself and others, if they are still reading, is that people on here are complaining, reviewers are complaining, about Lotus making a successful car, a VERY successful car, the MOST successful car they have EVER MADE in terms of initial orders? They made a car for the "masses", well the masses with 100k lying around, and that may mean its NOT a track weapon, it may mean its slightly soft, it may mean the turn in isn't sticking like xxxx on a blanket (sorry), BUT but this is what they wanted to make, a successful car that appeals to more than just reviewers and more than just us on here. Again, it's been an unmitigated success and here we are, and there the reviewers are, complaining!! How crazy is that. We complain that they did exactly what they wanted to do???? Ridiculous.
They made a car with MASS APPEAL, SEX APPEAL, CURB APPEAL and now we have the Right of Appeal, all before we have even driven it.
6. I am not saying its bad on a track or bad anywhere, I'm SURE its not, but Jethro and Chris and all of us need to realise this IS NOT a TRACK car! WHO out of the 7500 orders wants a track car? Maybe 500/1000? HARRY does not want a track car, hence he changed from Sport to Touring, and between my age and Harry's age are the average customers of this car, like it or lump it! So to all of you track nuts and bolts, you really need to stop thinking this is a GT4 type car, its NOT a car for you in this case. If you want that, then bloody-well wait for it (Leonard, just kidding )
7. Finally, probably, we also need to remember that the Porsche 718 is developed by porsche in their, whatever you call it department, lets call it general and that car in its base version has a 4 cyl and 300HP motor. This was the first 718 and its not bad, its a car for the masses and was almost a success, although its certainly NOT for the drivers and although EVO gave it a VERY GOOOOD review back in the day, it wasn't a hit at all. More power via a bigger turbo and the 718 S has 350 hp *I had one, and indeed up to 375 in the GTS 4 Cyl, before they had to can that GTS and bring back the V6 as it was SUCH a disappointment without it, although again, the reviews were very good, Pretty sure Catchpole did one on a Spanish island and said it was great, which does make you question the reviews, no?
8. Really finally now, we KNOW the GT4 is NOT developed in the "general" porsche 718 department, not in the 718 department at all, but instead in their GT area for race cars. This is why, to answer someones question, it is a very big deal to compare the Emira to the GT4 instead of the GTS for example. LOTUS's race department, if we want to say it exists, has not developed this car, its again, a 718 type car for the masses, except Lotus seem to have done a much better job than Porsche, as proportionally based on budget (yes I am educated guessing) and for size of Lotus compared to Porsche, this car would seem to so far be far more successful than the 718 (I appreciate its a hard comparison to make), but my point is, they are selling like steaming hot cakes and the 718 has NEVER sold that well, relatively speaking for porsche (911 kicks its back side for sales everywhere)
So when Lotus release their GT4/S whatever they call it, then all you track buts and bolts and reviewers expecting a track type focused razor sharp car, with suspension so stiff you need to gain 5 kilos in your xxxx to be comfy in the seat, then you can review it with that expectation in mind, ie that perspective in mind. Until then, I think the perspective should be, they have done exactly what they set out to do and based on what ingredients they had, which were out of their hands in some ways, they have done a GREAT job, or else why the hell are you here reading this crap??? haha

 

[Mctaff]

lol. love it

track nuts and bolts

 

[JumboJet]

I mean I understand the fans in here, many are financially and emotionally invested. They’re also traumatized by the lack of details from Lotus and they need to know they’ve placed their money on the right horse.

Just take a step back and realize the Emira will still be great for you, also realize that not every reviewer places value on a car the same way you might.

Now take a huge step back and realize — you haven’t even driven the car — the closest the entire forum has is TomE who has had a ride along

And me in the blue one. Not that I recall anything about the actual car-just the FLINT WALL

 

[Leonard]

uffff, as the song says, Its Getting Hot in Here!!!!

I will make some points, useless as they may be, but I will make them none the less.
1. I am surprised some people are here at all, as its pretty clear they either want, expect or believe that Lotus will or have already failed with the Emira, which is quite unfair. I can clearly see some rational thinking behind this feeling, but if Lotus and their car are so bad, well dont buy one, move on, and leave us day dream "believers" here to Monkey around alone.
2. I dont think anyone on here is stating that what Jethro said is actually incorrect, his video I refer to, not this article, which is just a poke at his haters and means nothing to anyone really (but thanks for sharing Leonard haha), he gets paid for writing and so he wrote, not much more to say about it, 5 mins of my life wasted (thanks again Leonard ). There is nothing of importance in his article, but actually, do McDonalds ice cream machines always break in the summer? I think that's as much of a leap as the rest of his comments, none of which are that funny.
3. I may be wrong, but even the staunchest of Lotus fans on here dont really disagree with what he said, we ALL know this engine is OLD, we all know the gear box is not as good as many cars out there, BUT they are both characterful and some of us, in fact most of us, do, or will like them a lot. Maybe I am the only one, but Porsches gear boxes to me are NOT the most amazing thing out there, but I guess its just me. The thing is, the crux of it for many of us, even forgetting the lack of permissions and underhand way things were done according to those in the know, Tom, was Jethro's tone, simple as that. He gave the review as if he had sat on, and broken an egg on the seat, and it was slowly seeping into the xxxx of his trousers as the review went on, and worse still, he blames Lotus for it.
4. The reviews, all of them, are about perspective and none of them actually seem to match with Lotus's own perspective. Yes they have the slogan, "for the drivers", which is a bit tacky, as are the launches, but they are trying something new and they are just words, although the steering feel at least matches those words in virtually all reviews and that for me is one of the 3 main factors in a car (engine noise and gear box being the others ooops).
5. My point from 4 is, which I will now make in 5. just to confuse myself and others, if they are still reading, is that people on here are complaining, reviewers are complaining, about Lotus making a successful car, a VERY successful car, the MOST successful car they have EVER MADE in terms of initial orders? They made a car for the "masses", well the masses with 100k lying around, and that may mean its NOT a track weapon, it may mean its slightly soft, it may mean the turn in isn't sticking like xxxx on a blanket (sorry), BUT but this is what they wanted to make, a successful car that appeals to more than just reviewers and more than just us on here. Again, it's been an unmitigated success and here we are, and there the reviewers are, complaining!! How crazy is that. We complain that they did exactly what they wanted to do???? Ridiculous.
They made a car with MASS APPEAL, SEX APPEAL, CURB APPEAL and now we have the Right of Appeal, all before we have even driven it.
6. I am not saying its bad on a track or bad anywhere, I'm SURE its not, but Jethro and Chris and all of us need to realise this IS NOT a TRACK car! WHO out of the 7500 orders wants a track car? Maybe 500/1000? HARRY does not want a track car, hence he changed from Sport to Touring, and between my age and Harry's age are the average customers of this car, like it or lump it! So to all of you track nuts and bolts, you really need to stop thinking this is a GT4 type car, its NOT a car for you in this case. If you want that, then bloody-well wait for it (Leonard, just kidding )
7. Finally, probably, we also need to remember that the Porsche 718 is developed by porsche in their, whatever you call it department, lets call it general and that car in its base version has a 4 cyl and 300HP motor. This was the first 718 and its not bad, its a car for the masses and was almost a success, although its certainly NOT for the drivers and although EVO gave it a VERY GOOOOD review back in the day, it wasn't a hit at all. More power via a bigger turbo and the 718 S has 350 hp *I had one, and indeed up to 375 in the GTS 4 Cyl, before they had to can that GTS and bring back the V6 as it was SUCH a disappointment without it, although again, the reviews were very good, Pretty sure Catchpole did one on a Spanish island and said it was great, which does make you question the reviews, no?
8. Really finally now, we KNOW the GT4 is NOT developed in the "general" porsche 718 department, not in the 718 department at all, but instead in their GT area for race cars. This is why, to answer someones question, it is a very big deal to compare the Emira to the GT4 instead of the GTS for example. LOTUS's race department, if we want to say it exists, has not developed this car, its again, a 718 type car for the masses, except Lotus seem to have done a much better job than Porsche, as proportionally based on budget (yes I am educated guessing) and for size of Lotus compared to Porsche, this car would seem to so far be far more successful than the 718 (I appreciate its a hard comparison to make), but my point is, they are selling like steaming hot cakes and the 718 has NEVER sold that well, relatively speaking for porsche (911 kicks its back side for sales everywhere)
So when Lotus release their GT4/S whatever they call it, then all you track buts and bolts and reviewers expecting a track type focused razor sharp car, with suspension so stiff you need to gain 5 kilos in your xxxx to be comfy in the seat, then you can review it with that expectation in mind, ie that perspective in mind. Until then, I think the perspective should be, they have done exactly what they set out to do and based on what ingredients they had, which were out of their hands in some ways, they have done a GREAT job, or else why the hell are you here reading this crap??? haha

What can I say. I simply feel similar to Jethro sooooo frustrating

 

[Leonard]

Soooooooooo frustrating

 

[emiraspain]

Soooooooooo frustrating

dont ever say that again!!!.. haha..
i will never forget those words and that tone, THAT TONE........ the worst thing is, it doesnt even come across as if he really wanted them to succeed, but Im sure he probably does... why wouldnt he after all, nearly every car person does as if Lotus left us, then Alpine surely would too, considering they are developing their next sports car together (although it didnt work out so well for caterham who were working with renault last time)... and then who are we left with when we want something off the wall.....

 

[frazzer]

it's not religion, it's just a car

 

[Johnson]

I’m absolutely fine with the less-than-stellar reviews… personal preferences are always subjective.

For me, it’s the ideal sports car. Drop dead gorgeous. Not too quick that I won’t have to drive it without encouragement (or keep watching the speedo). Manual. Fits my 6’2” body (reportedly). And a reliable engine that I don’t need to worry about (I’m literally a three hour drive and then an eleven hour boat trip from my dealer).

To be any more perfect, it would have to have pop-up lights and a Ferrari badge. Oh, and maybe smaller cutouts in the bonnet (they still bug me a bit). But damn, I’m still pinching myself that this car has come along at the perfect time in my life.

 

[Evotion]

Better add my tuppence.

It was disappointing that he didn't rave about it, of course.
What got me really peeved was he came at it with seemingly an immediate agenda against it and was determined to show he didn't even like it - in the slightest.

I just don't get how anybody who drives any car can be so miserable. If I was reviewing my Nissan Micra 1.0L station car I would have a smile on my face, showing I was having a laugh.

What he actually said, well, that was his opinion, on that day, in that car, with that set-up and we have to let him have that. He might well be right.

But then throw in what Tom and others keep mentioning about the non-authorised track use and it really smells bad.

Then that new article - nah, he has lost the plot.

 

[Leonard]

Better add my tuppence.

It was disappointing that he didn't rave about it, of course.
What got me really peeved was he came at it with seemingly an immediate agenda against it and was determined to show he didn't even like it - in the slightest.

I just don't get how anybody who drives any car can be so miserable. If I was reviewing my Nissan Micra 1.0L station car I would have a smile on my face, showing I was having a laugh.

What he actually said, well, that was his opinion, on that day, in that car, with that set-up and we have to let him have that. He might well be right.

But then throw in what Tom and others keep mentioning about the non-authorised track use and it really smells bad.

Then that new article - nah, he has lost the plot.

To me it just shows the passion that a pivotal Lotus release such as the Emira brings out in a true petrol head.
I'm 50/50 on this latest EVO article. But then again if I had hundreds of people telling me I didn't know what I was talking about, was in bed with Porsche and ultimately wasn't allowed to give my own opinion, when the whole point of my role was to give my opinion....
I'd probably write a two fingered salute as well

 

[Green]

I had the exact same thought, Topgear video review was only worth some wet drift video clips and zero other substance. Additionally, every single review video or magazine who compared the Emira to any other Porsche — in the end picked the Porsche.

Apparently to some people here — it’s all a big marketing dollars lie — Porsche makes terrible cars with huge sales figures solely based based on magazine reviews?

To me it just shows the passion that a pivotal Lotus release such as the Emira brings out in a true petrol head.
I'm 50/50 on this latest EVO article. But then again if I had hundreds of people telling me I didn't know what I was talking about, was in bed with Porsche and ultimately wasn't allowed to give my own opinion, when the whole point of my role was to give my opinion....
I'd probably write a two fingered salute as well

We can't help how we feel, but we can choose how we act.​

 

[Lotustoronto]

Better add my tuppence.

It was disappointing that he didn't rave about it, of course.
What got me really peeved was he came at it with seemingly an immediate agenda against it and was determined to show he didn't even like it - in the slightest.

I just don't get how anybody who drives any car can be so miserable. If I was reviewing my Nissan Micra 1.0L station car I would have a smile on my face, showing I was having a laugh.

What he actually said, well, that was his opinion, on that day, in that car, with that set-up and we have to let him have that. He might well be right.

But then throw in what Tom and others keep mentioning about the non-authorised track use and it really smells bad.

Then that new article - nah, he has lost the plot.

Jethro's review felt biased against Lotus from the beginning, no doubt about it. Was it done purposely? Maybe. Perhaps he truly does not like Lotus cars in general. Reviewers will always have some biased towards certain cars, they are human. Clearly tracking a pre-production Emira with no cup tires against a GT4 was only going to end in one way. And then complain in another article how he is a fair journalist. Right.

The latest Autocar review by Matt Saunders to me felt the most fair and unbiased. He did a great job of describing what the Emira is and even though it came in 2nd place (against Cayman GTS 4.0), the way I read it, it felt like 1st place.

 

[CarGuy07]

Jethro's review felt biased against Lotus from the beginning, no doubt about it. Was it done purposely? Maybe. Perhaps he truly does not like Lotus cars in general. Reviewers will always have some biased towards certain cars, they are human. Clearly tracking a pre-production Emira with no cup tires against a GT4 was only going to end in one way. And then complain in another article how he is a fair journalist. Right.

The latest Autocar review by Matt Saunders to me felt the most fair and unbiased. He did a great job of describing the Emira is and even though it came in 2nd place, the way I read it, it felt like 1st place.

You’re right: everyone has their own bias, just like those who diss on Jethro. How do we “have no doubt” he is biased? Did he admit to it? He had an opinion and we can choose to accept it or not. What I’ve just now realized that people have already made up their mind in one way or another, and will look for confirmation. When Harry’s review came out, most were saying “yes he liked it and he drives it just the way I do. It’s good enough.” And then Top Gear’s video came out and people are like “yes that’s how a Lotus should drive and performance hallelujah!” The same people would find faults with Jethro’s review, method, and bias. This has all been entertaining to follow along.

 

[Lotustoronto]

You’re right: everyone has their own bias, just like those who diss on Jethro. How do we “have no doubt” he is biased? Did he admit to it? He had an opinion and we can choose to accept it or not. What I’ve just now realized that people have already made up their mind in one way or another, and will look for confirmation. When Harry’s review came out, most were saying “yes he liked it and he drives it just the way I do. It’s good enough.” And then Top Gear’s video came out and people are like “yes that’s how a Lotus should drive and performance hallelujah!” The same people would find faults with Jethro’s review, method, and bias. This has all been entertaining to follow along.

There were many reviews comparing Porsche to Lotus. Harris did the same in his last interview. It felt that Harris was trying to be unbiased, even though we know he is a HUGE Porsche guy. (owns a gt3t) All other reviews that did the same comparisons all came out to the same answer, except EVO did it in a disappointing way (which felt biased towards Porsche)... Cayman GTS 4.0 is the gold standard mid-engine road car and Lotus in some ways fell short of it (engine/trans) and in other ways beats it. Hard choice to make between the two for most of the reviewers. Harris and Harry being the ones that leaned more Emira over Cayman. The difference was no one was comparing the GT4, and shouldn't. Jethro did. For people that love cars and know the difference between a GT Porsche product and non GT product understand this. For the general person looking at an Emira to buy (which is the purpose of car reviews) and if watched that review, they would be heading over to the Porsche dealership to buy a cayman. If you watch or read any of the other reviews, none of them gave that same impression. They may have ranked the cayman above the Emira, but at the very least gave a more balanced review for what the Emira is.( not a GT4 track competitor)

My question to Jethro is this - If in two years time the Emira gets an AMG i4 gt/cup lighter weight, more power track edition, which Porsche will he be reviewing it against then? The same GT4? He didn't do apples to apples and got slammed for it.

 

[Porter]

i will never forget those words and that tone, THAT TONE........

Therein lies the problem, Jethro just oozes disdain. As an American observing him, it reads 100% as a class thing. That's why he's so particularly off-putting on this one, the attitude is just so grossly paternalistic and entitled.

Does he intend it that way? I have no idea. But it definitely comes across like that to a non-English observer.

 

[simonb]

I thought the Jethro article was fair, although the porsche comparison was a bit of an unfair construct

However, I had not been remotely tempted by an Evora, and I suspect a back to back test of GT410 v Emira would find very little difference in driving performance and feel

Emira is much better packaged, and prettier, it is a tad heavy, but that will make it more civilised, and hopefully screwed together with bigger screws. For me the i4 is the interesting one, but totally understand those entrenched in the more cylinders and a gearstick obsession

 

[FederGigant]

What I have to ask myself all the time is where have you all got the information from that the Emira is dialed down and less focused compared to the Evora?
The GT410 sport had a few more horses and was lighter, that‘s correct. It also had Cup2s as standard and costs 20% more. It was also louder, but that’s not allowed anymore. Other than that I think the Emira is every bit as driver focused as the Evora was. Maybe the setup/suspension tuning was a bit more hardcore for the Evora. However you can adjust that for a 100 bucks without changing one part. The Emira has roughly the same hardware regarding springs, dampers, double wishbones, overall chassis design, etc., but also has the newer iterations of all those components and a way wider track. Why shouldn‘t it perform similarly? It’s just about the dialed in geometry. Like I said, drive it to a suspension expert and they can dial it in the way you like it. It will take one hour, cost you close to nothing, no other parts needed, no warranty voided, and the car will behave way more focused.
If you want it to be lighter, just wait for the carbon parts that will be produced and retrofit them. That will cost more money, but if Lotus had fitted them, you would have had to pay them as well.
For now however, we have to understand that the first edition is not the track special version of the car. But it‘s a very good starting point. And as a hardcore lightweight track special, it would have been at least 20% more expansive. Use that money that you saved to adjust the car to your specific taste. I also get it that some people don’t want to tune there expansive new toy, but guess what: especially if we talk about weight reduction and carbon parts, bucket seats etc., just keep the original parts and you can get back to stock whenever you like without anybody ever noticing that you had a carbon trunk lid and bucket seats in your car for some time

 

[Leonard]

What I have to ask myself all the time is where have you all got the information from that the Emira is dialed down and less focused compared to the Evora?
The GT410 sport had a few more horses and was lighter, that‘s correct. It also had Cup2s as standard and costs 20% more. It was also louder, but that’s not allowed anymore. Other than that I think the Emira is every bit as driver focused as the Evora was. Maybe the setup/suspension tuning was a bit more hardcore for the Evora. However you can adjust that for a 100 bucks without changing one part. The Emira has roughly the same hardware regarding springs, dampers, double wishbones, overall chassis design, etc., but also has the newer iterations of all those components and a way wider track. Why shouldn‘t it perform similarly? It’s just about the dialed in geometry. Like I said, drive it to a suspension expert and they can dial it in the way you like it. It will take one hour, cost you close to nothing, no other parts needed, no warranty voided, and the car will behave way more focused.
If you want it to be lighter, just wait for the carbon parts that will be produced and retrofit them. That will cost more money, but if Lotus had fitted them, you would have had to pay them as well.
For now however, we have to understand that the first edition is not the track special version of the car. But it‘s a very good starting point. And as a hardcore lightweight track special, it would have been at least 20% more expansive. Use that money that you saved to adjust the car to your specific taste. I also get it that some people don’t want to tune there expansive new toy, but guess what: especially if we talk about weight reduction and carbon parts, bucket seats etc., just keep the original parts and you can get back to stock whenever you like without anybody ever noticing that you had a carbon trunk lid and bucket seats in your car for some time

This is very very true. I just didn't really want to start modifying a brand new 80k car and risk invalidating warranty etc.

 

[Mctaff]

Honestly the GT4 was only mentioned a few times in the piece… he called out it wasn’t a fair comparison multiple times, and he mentioned the GTS just as much from memory, re gearbox and other aspects.

And I really don’t get this “he took dads car on the track without permission“ stuff… why is this relevant?! He called out it could do with the different setup to really excel on the track.

I for one won’t have multiple emira derivatives for each different usage. Whatever setup I have will go on the track occasionally, so it’s perfectly valid to take this setup on the track for me