latest colour info...

[Leonard]

Makes me laugh how people think it’s wrong to question what is being said, even when some of Lotus’ direct communications are wrong such as ADAS being on the car, to now know it isn’t, without any official communication to say otherwise.

Under the Consumer Rights Act 2015, the goods supplied must match any description given to you or any models or samples shown to you at the time of purchase otherwise they can be deemed not fit for purpose.

Maybe it’s also the fact that for many people, they know the car is stunning but it’s probably a huge stretch at £80K, so it’s incredibly important they can make the right, informed decisions, and surely it’s not too much to ask for a manufacturer to give accurate, consistent information.

This is supposed to be the new, better Lotus, who want to attract many new buyers to the brand rather than just the existing fan base, so the old “just accept it how it is” doth butter no parsnips.

Didn’t stop me paying my second deposit though !!

Yup it's definitely not chump change. If it wasn't such an emotional purchase you would be questioning the hell of it.
Thinking about it rationally, the FE is a fair bit more cash than the base car as you are supposed to be getting a better value options proposition. Bet all of the recently omitted safety features that will probably cost future customers 2k as an option, haven't been figured out of the FE final price though....

 

[CanadianEmira]

Makes me laugh how people just can’t embrace the car for what it is. Like it buy it and if not best wishes in whatever you choose.

This really has nothing to do with me “embracing” the car or not. I’m just curious about the real power output of the car, and asking what the reason might be if they did in fact report it more conservatively.

 

[CanadianEmira]

I think it's a case of you could accept it, IF there hadn't been a fair bit of contradictory info flying around that may have influenced your purchase decision in the first instance. Don't get me wrong I'm happy enough, but can see why folk get a bit upset.
I myself was expecting 416bhp and 1400kg. Sounds like that is 400 and maybe 1450 odd now. Means power to weight same as my old M2 Comp manual and was hoping for a smidge more

Where did you get this new weight figure? Last I heard it was 1400ish I think.

 

[Leonard]

Where did you get this new weight figure? Last I heard it was 1400ish I think.

I just figure that will be base car no options and no fuel. Again not sure we have really been told what the true weight is for all the models fueled and unfueled. Hopefully someone can answer.
I'm hoping the 416bhp is true and done in the age old fashion of the motoring industry of underestimating the power so that first driving impressions (and reviews) are even more glowing

 

[fatjase]

I just figure that will be base car no options and no fuel. Again not sure we have really been told what the true weight is for all the models fueled and unfueled. Hopefully someone can answer.
I'm hoping the 416bhp is true and done in the age old fashion of the motoring industry of underestimating the power so that first driving impressions (and reviews) are even more glowing

Manufacturers weight figures are always a bit difficult to fathom i find as the various standards used muddy the water so it isn't often like for like. For me if kerb weight with fluids is less than 1500kg, weight distribution is as close to 50/50 as possible and bhp per tonne is above 260 i'll be happy. I think the Evora is 40/60 front to back weight distribution so i'm guessing the Emira will be similar unless some of the tech workings are in the front and shifts some of the weight forward!?! More power always sounds great but there comes a point where traction becomes an issue and / or the fact you are doing licence losing speeds far too quickly.

 

[Leonard]

Manufacturers weight figures are always a bit difficult to fathom i find as the various standards used muddy the water so it isn't often like for like. For me if kerb weight with fluids is less than 1500kg, weight distribution is as close to 50/50 as possible and bhp per tonne is above 260 i'll be happy. I think the Evora is 40/60 front to back weight distribution so i'm guessing the Emira will be similar unless some of the tech workings are in the front and shifts some of the weight forward!?! More power always sounds great but there comes a point where traction becomes an issue and / or the fact you are doing licence losing speeds far too quickly.

Agreed
Not sure why they couldn't get closer to 50/50 if they wanted. You would think as its mid engine and doesn't have a frunk you would have a lot of upfront room to play with.

 

[CanadianEmira]

Manufacturers weight figures are always a bit difficult to fathom i find as the various standards used muddy the water so it isn't often like for like. For me if kerb weight with fluids is less than 1500kg, weight distribution is as close to 50/50 as possible and bhp per tonne is above 260 i'll be happy. I think the Evora is 40/60 front to back weight distribution so i'm guessing the Emira will be similar unless some of the tech workings are in the front and shifts some of the weight forward!?! More power always sounds great but there comes a point where traction becomes an issue and / or the fact you are doing licence losing speeds far too quickly.

Agreed. I actually think the power to weight (as we know them now 400/1400) is quite ideal for the road. significantly more power than that and it gets a little silly too easily IMO.

 

[fatjase]

Agreed
Not sure why they couldn't get closer to 50/50 if they wanted. You would think as its mid engine and doesn't have a frunk you would have a lot of upfront room to play with.

It does seem odd doesn't it. I decided to look at the weight figures quoted by Porsche for the Cayman GTS 4.0 and the GT4 and they quote DIN (Weight of the car with all fluids necessary for operation, including a 90% full fuel tank) weight figures of 1405kg and 1420kg respectively for the manual version of those cars and that is without any options. The Emira is definitely trying to compete on pretty much every level with those cars surely. Lotus quote a DIN figure for the Emira FE as 1405kg which I would guess is for the manual car also.

 

[CanadianEmira]

I think it's a case of you could accept it, IF there hadn't been a fair bit of contradictory info flying around that may have influenced your purchase decision in the first instance. Don't get me wrong I'm happy enough, but can see why folk get a bit upset.
I myself was expecting 416bhp and 1400kg. Sounds like that is 400 and maybe 1450 odd now. Means power to weight same as my old M2 Comp manual and was hoping for a smidge more

How much does the manual M2C weigh btw? Mine with DCT here in Canada is 1605kg, so I was hoping for a significantly better power to weight ratio with the Emira… hope that doesn’t change!

 

[fatjase]

It does seem odd doesn't it. I decided to look at the weight figures quoted by Porsche for the Cayman GTS 4.0 and the GT4 and they quote DIN (Weight of the car with all fluids necessary for operation, including a 90% full fuel tank) weight figures of 1405kg and 1420kg respectively for the manual version of those cars and that is without any options. The Emira is definitely trying to compete on pretty much every level with those cars surely. Lotus quote a DIN figure for the Emira FE as 1405kg which I would guess is for the manual car also.

Looking at the Emira spec sheet posted on this forum it actually shows DIN weight for the V6 FE as 1458kg and then further down on the last page shows the 'Emira' DIN weight as 1405kg. I suspect the latter is for a base i4 model then?

 

[fatjase]

How much does the manual M2C weigh btw? Mine with DCT here in Canada is 1605kg, so I was hoping for a significantly better power to weight ratio with the Emira… hope that doesn’t change!

According to BMW UK the M2C manual weighs 1625kg EU (The EU standard adds 75kg for a driver and luggage) so that would be 1550kg DIN so 265HP per ton. Emira looking like 274HP per ton from what I can gather so far.

 

[CanadianEmira]

According to BMW UK the M2C manual weighs 1625kg EU (The EU standard adds 75kg for a driver and luggage) so that would be 1550kg DIN so 265HP per ton. Emira looking like 274HP per ton from what I can gather so far.

Nice, thanks for the info. Bit of an improvement then but roughly comparable. Hoping that the Emira is secretly 416hp, which I think very well may be the cases given Matt’s comments at Goodwood.

 

[CanadianEmira]

Found this link that discusses weight reduction vs additional horsepower. Apparently you could get the same benefit as removing 100lbs from a car by simply adding 6.5hp. It concludes that adding hp is a more effective way to speed up a car. Colin Chapman would be rolling in his grave.

How to Compare Weight Savings to Horsepower Gains | Tuner University

www.tuneruniversity.com

 

[fatjase]

Nice, thanks for the info. Bit of an improvement then but roughly comparable. Hoping that the Emira is secretly 416hp, which I think very well may be the cases given Matt’s comments at Goodwood.

That would be good and would nudge it to around 285HP per ton which I suspect will be plenty enough. My friend had a 2018 Vantage with the 4.0 V8 from AMG in it and that worked out around 310HP per ton and breaking traction with a heavy left foot was very easy however that was probably more to do with the torque on tap which was significant.

 

[eclat2emira]

Found this link that discusses weight reduction vs additional horsepower. Apparently you could get the same benefit as removing 100lbs from a car by simply adding 6.5hp. It concludes that adding hp is a more effective way to speed up a car. Colin Chapman would be rolling in his grave.

How to Compare Weight Savings to Horsepower Gains | Tuner University

www.tuneruniversity.com

Thanks for the link, that's a good article - also interesting to see power-to-weight flipped round the other way. I think the last paragraph is the most important though as it puts it all in context, which actually reinforces Chapman's principles rather than contradicting them:
"Of course, this is also if we only take into consideration the acceleration effects of weight and power. In road racing or in a daily driver, weight loss is more useful than in drag racing. Of course, regardless of our goals, the least amount of weight necessary is best."

Weight reduction means you shed speed more quickly when braking (less mass to decelerate), increase cornering speed due to reduced load on the tyres and accelerate more quickly, this is the basis of Chapman's case for weight reduction being the most effective route to faster lap times and better all round performance. A lighter car will also wear out its components (tyres, brakes and even suspension) less quickly than a heavier one, if they are both driven at the same speed.

If using less fuel is important to you that is another benefit, although if that is a high priority you are probably not in the market for an Emira or anything similar!

 

[EM33RA]

I think it's a case of you could accept it, IF there hadn't been a fair bit of contradictory info flying around that may have influenced your purchase decision in the first instance. Don't get me wrong I'm happy enough, but can see why folk get a bit upset.
I myself was expecting 416bhp and 1400kg. Sounds like that is 400 and maybe 1450 odd now. Means power to weight same as my old M2 Comp manual and was hoping for a smidge more

Mate I’m one of the first people that thought the same about the very valid outline you stated. But for some they just keep going on over and over the same thing it gets tiring in taking away from people’s experience about getting the car.

 

[EM33RA]

Makes me laugh how people think it’s wrong to question what is being said, even when some of Lotus’ direct communications are wrong such as ADAS being on the car, to now know it isn’t, without any official communication to say otherwise.

Under the Consumer Rights Act 2015, the goods supplied must match any description given to you or any models or samples shown to you at the time of purchase otherwise they can be deemed not fit for purpose.

Maybe it’s also the fact that for many people, they know the car is stunning but it’s probably a huge stretch at £80K, so it’s incredibly important they can make the right, informed decisions, and surely it’s not too much to ask for a manufacturer to give accurate, consistent information.

This is supposed to be the new, better Lotus, who want to attract many new buyers to the brand rather than just the existing fan base, so the old “just accept it how it is” doth butter no parsnips.

Didn’t stop me paying my second deposit though !!

Lol I think you misunderstood my comment as we both are in the same boat per say. I just want to make sure the negativity doesn’t take away from peoples positive vibes and energy in getting the car. Whilst enjoying the process that comes with it. Absolutely not a doubt in my mind Lotus are like a fish out of water at the moment, as they got what they wanted but have been totally overwhelmed by the uptake/response to this car.

I have much faster cars than the Lotus but it will hold a special place as did my Evora.

 

[Leonard]

I have much faster cars than the Lotus but it will hold a special place as did my Evora.

Definitely easier to deal with all the conjecture if not your one big sports car purchase. Again I'm fine with it all, will just state that again But as someone without a Gt3 and Mclaren 720S in the garage I can see why folk are bothered. If it was a 3rd car of lesser value than my current fleet then I wouldn't give a monkeys about anything other than it looks great and will no doubt be an awesome driver no matter the specs and options

 

[eclat2emira]

Thanks for the link, that's a good article - also interesting to see power-to-weight flipped round the other way. I think the last paragraph is the most important though as it puts it all in context, which actually reinforces Chapman's principles rather than contradicting them:
"Of course, this is also if we only take into consideration the acceleration effects of weight and power. In road racing or in a daily driver, weight loss is more useful than in drag racing. Of course, regardless of our goals, the least amount of weight necessary is best."

Weight reduction means you shed speed more quickly when braking (less mass to decelerate), increase cornering speed due to reduced load on the tyres and accelerate more quickly, this is the basis of Chapman's case for weight reduction being the most effective route to faster lap times and better all round performance. A lighter car will also wear out its components (tyres, brakes and even suspension) less quickly than a heavier one, if they are both driven at the same speed.

If using less fuel is important to you that is another benefit, although if that is a high priority you are probably not in the market for an Emira or anything similar!

Great piece here on epic 911 weight reduction:

CLR Project Leichtbau: adding lightness to the tune of 250kg

I keep having re-occurring thoughts about making my 98 C2 a little more interesting and focused. Problem is it really is a beautiful car and has all the right bits and pieces (Full Hartech, PSE, M030, OEM trick diff, 997SSK, 10speaker system incl door woofers...) so I don't want to potentially...

911uk.com

The resulting power to weight easily exceeded that of a 996 turbo, braking and cornering would have be superior too. Not a fan of the look but that's a different story.

If I keep my 996 series 911 Carrera 4S, I'll continue my current weight reduction programme until it's about 120kg lighter, then possibly go for the Hartech 3.9 conversion taking it up to 360bhp as it will be needing a rebuild soon anyway (over 150,000 miles) Funnily enough that will put it at about 1400kg and 360bhp - sound familiar?

 

[New to Lotus]

I cant what to get mine I think its going to be mega, for a fast road track car it's in the true sweet spot 1400/1450 kg, 400 bhp, 410 nm, lotus legendary steering and suspension, improved aerodynamics and a wider track. Its going to be