So is it a great car?

[Cachaco131]

My good fellow, I object to your classifying the Toyota GR86 or Golf GTI as being "sports cars". Rather, I would call them "sporty cars".

I shall await your rebuttal at the bike racks after school.

Hahaha I don't disagree! Sporty is an adequate classification. But hey, is an M2 or an M3 a sports car?

 

[TRX250EX]

The detuned power issue in my opinion goes back to what I said that Lotus reached the limits of the V6 and their Manual transmission (as a production car not a tuned one).

Why detuned? My guess they gonna have an S or GT sort of variants so they need to differentiate normal Emira with them, otherwise it won't appeal to upgrade to the faster variants, when these will come out? I believe 2024 reveal with 2025 model year, I expect like some said "Final Edition" sort of V6 with 430-450hp, then I4 takes over up to 480hp let's say.

 

[MaybeNeedEmira]

Are you suggesting the target market for a V6 FE Emira that we've waited over a year with a deposit -- are prior Camry v6 owners?

It was my intent .. a bit. Now they can have a great sports car instead for about $35k more and be sure to get the same reliable engine (that was the cheeky bit)

I think the main step-up competitors have been mentioned.
If customer drives can't convince Golf GTI owners to pay up, then better get an Emira while you can.

I for one will drive my Cayman to the Emira test drive for a back-to-back experience. I'll do V6 test, but only to see if I4 version has any appeal.

 

[Eagle7]

I know some are expecting a final edition V6, but they're running out of time to be able to use that engine. With the order book so deep already, without any reviews of a final production car or cars out for the public to test drive, what's going to happen to the order book once those things happen? If they wind up with orders for every V6 they can produce up until they can't use that engine anymore, why would they want to come out with another edition? I don't see them wanting to invest the money into something like that. It's their last ICE car, so I would expect any further investment to be in their electric portfolio.

The V6 is going to have a very short model year run, and that's assuming they can get all the engines they need from Toyota in the next 3 years. If there is a final edition, it will probably be the i4.

 

[Maurice R]

I had the pleasure of about 80 miles across the Yorkshire Moors in my mates 718 GT4 (PDK) yesterday evening and I can honestly say it is an incredibly competent car but is such that I was driving flowing but twisty roads at 75mph and I it just wasn't exciting, I'd of needed to be doing closer to 100mph to of felt truly engaged and enthused. At anything below 5000rpm I found the engine note lacking especially in comparison to our RS3 and SLK55 (not really Porsches fault, that's what GPF's do sadly). On track or something really twisty like the Grossglockner it would be absolutely incredible but for me and my world it's just too capable and as a result a bit soulless. After driving the GT4 I drove home in the SLK55, it's imperfections and that V8 made it a much more engaging and enjoyable experience as it needed to be worked to get the most out of the experience where as the GT4 doesn't because it does everything effortlessly well.

I hope the Emira is somewhere between the SLK55 and the GT4 and then it will be an excellent addition to the garage,

I think you will absolutely love the Emira
Even with all the downsides and nonsense that have been written in the press.
It will be engaging and total fun to drive.
Personally I will drive mine where possible at least at 8/10 or more

 

[Eagle7]

I expect one of the benefits of the Emira is you won't have to be near the top of the rpm range or pushing it to enjoy it. It should be enjoyable at any speed, which to me is what a true sports car can do.

I'm really looking forward to the first customer reviews as cars start to be delivered.

 

[DaaS]

If it helps my friend has had the GT4 for 4 weeks and has sold it back to Porsche in exchange for a 991.1 GT3 for pretty much the reasons I have noted above. Bearing in mind he ordered a 718 Spyder 2 years ago and then as Porsche couldn't confirm when he might get that they offered him a GT4 slot instead says it all. I know a few people in a car club I'm in who love their GT4's but they do a significant amount of track time and I think that is where the GT4 ultimately does its best work.
I think the GT3 will offer a middle ground as it has the noise and drama that the GT4 has been stifled of due to regulations. I'll be sure to tell you in the next few months when I get to take the GT3 out and enjoy it.

I would love to hear your feedback once you drive the GT3. I have driven a 991.2 GT3 PDK on public roads. It did everything right and effortlessly, which unfortunately translated to boring.

These are track cars that prefer living on the edge. Journalists and their track reviews make us super excited about them, but then when we drive these cars on public roads (next to proper sports cars like GR86/BRZ) we complain that they don’t feel raw or special enough.

 

[Lotustoronto]

I know some are expecting a final edition V6, but they're running out of time to be able to use that engine. With the order book so deep already, without any reviews of a final production car or cars out for the public to test drive, what's going to happen to the order book once those things happen? If they wind up with orders for every V6 they can produce up until they can't use that engine anymore, why would they want to come out with another edition? I don't see them wanting to invest the money into something like that. It's their last ICE car, so I would expect any further investment to be in their electric portfolio.

The V6 is going to have a very short model year run, and that's assuming they can get all the engines they need from Toyota in the next 3 years. If there is a final edition, it will probably be the i4.

@Eagle7 ... I shed a tear with your post. Not because you are wrong, but because you might be right. With such a full order book already, how does the V6 Final happen? I am hoping that their is a business case for it. If there is not a business case, then go the Porsche route. They never needed to build the 718 GT4RS, but they did. The last of ICE from Lotus deserves to be the best version. It shows something special. That they weren't willing to leave anything on the table. I would think these upgrades would be worth an additional 15-20K GPB over the V6 FE price.

I still think they will do it and I will list my most wanted options just in case someone at lotus reads this...

Carbon Bucket Seats from Evija
Magnesium Wheels
Carbon Ceramic brakes (optional)
Carbon Roof / Carbon Upper Black pack (instead of black paint)
Titanium Exhaust (optional)
Open shifter (no leather boot)
430-450 BHP / higher redline
Sport Suspension

*no wing, the body lines look good as is*

 

[Hapkin]

I was in a minority with the M2 and found it lacking.
Oh dear

Did you drive an OG M2, or M2C or M2CS? I agree that the N55 OGM2 was underwhelming. M2C is fast as hell but it's a mid range car, not a drag races. CS is on another level at the track, and from about 35mph up. I have driven every variant of M2 on road, canyons/mountains and own a CS that I track regularly so I have no illusions that the Emira V6 will keep up. It won't. It's above the visceral feel, flow, handling and balance that the Emira will be better. Also lower center of gravity..

 

[Matt]

Have I read that right, the latest Supra is quicker straight line than an Evora gt?? I've driven the latest supra and it is not a quick car (or particularly involving in any way tbh) and certainly didnt feel like it would live with my 981 gt4 so that's quite concerning


I've finally got around to watching the car group test, a test it had no business being in imo, and it came across disappointingly average.
It confirmed a few things I already thought.
This car is always going to be cursed with unrealistic expectations due to those damn good looks. I don't think it was just the media though, I think based on looks (and huge investment I guess) many of us, me included, thought this was a nailed on car of the year that would redefine sports cars sub 100k and blow everyone away....


It's just not that car, by no means a bad one and a solid left field contender but the reality is it just doesn't quite live up to expectations.


A small glimmer of hope for me is that Lotus has so spectacularly dropped the ball on the press launch sending out pre production cars (maybe they wanted that caveat to use to help lower expectations), wrong spec cars and generally not controlling the narrative (did they think they had such a good product they didn't need to?) that when production cars hit the tests it may claw some love back. I actually expect so.

Most manufacturers claim a car has XX HP of the engin crankshaft output. However, SUPRA has 380HP on wheels and it could be easily tuned to 500HP.Not to mention the smart electronic system that could reduce the slipping.

 

[Eagle7]

@Eagle7 ... I shed a tear with your post. Not because you are wrong, but because you might be right. With such a full order book already, how does the V6 Final happen? I am hoping that their is a business case for it. If there is not a business case, then go the Porsche route. They never needed to build the 718 GT4RS, but they did. The last of ICE from Lotus deserves to be the best version. It shows something special. That they weren't willing to leave anything on the table. I would think these upgrades would be worth an additional 15-20K GPB over the V6 FE price.

I still think they will do it and I will list my most wanted options just in case someone at lotus reads this...

Carbon Bucket Seats from Evija
Magnesium Wheels
Carbon Ceramic brakes (optional)
Carbon Roof / Carbon Upper Black pack (instead of black paint)
Titanium Exhaust (optional)
Open shifter (no leather boot)
430-450 BHP / higher redline
Sport Suspension

*no wing, the body lines look good as is*

The thing is, even with the investment from Geely, Lotus isn't anywhere near the company Porsche is. They're still small potatoes by comparison.

The things you've listed would definitely push the price over 100k, but there is a possibility, rather than make another edition of the Emira, they could possibly make some of those things available as accessories that could be purchased from their Advanced Performance group. Seats, wheels, brakes exhaust, etc. those are the kinds of things users could add as an aftermarket item without Lotus having to go through the expense of getting a new edition model validated.

Carbon roof; probably not, however I can easily see carbon front and rear deck lids, probably from China since they'd be exactly the same as the NYO Emira's for China. Whether it would be worth the expense and hassle along with paint matching, to switch to those would be up to the individual. In fact there may be a lot of aftermarket stuff from China for the NYO Emiras that would fit our cars. They get that sort of thing done fast over there, so if the Emira is popular, you'll see lots of extra stuff become available in no time.

There's probably going to be aftermarket performance tunes available, but there may be other things needed to deal with the additional heat. Tunes are likely to take awhile to become available, and I don't expect them to be cheap either, especially if there's a bundle of things required to make them reliable.

All these things cost money of course, but if there was an upgraded final edition like you want, that would cost a lot too. It would be nice to have it all come from the factory ready to go, but if they do make aftermarket stuff available, at least that's something.

 

[Eagle7]

Most manufacturers claim a car has XX HP of the engin crankshaft output. However, SUPRA has 380HP on wheels and it could be easily tuned to 500HP.Not to mention the smart electronic system that could reduce the slipping.

If the spec says bhp (brake horsepower) that's at the crank; if it says whp (wheel horsepower), that's the power actually making it to the wheels, which is the real number you want to know, but that's also always less than bhp, so manufacturers rarely use whp in their marketing. If the number is listed as bhp or just hp, that's not whp or rwhp (rear wheel horsepower).

It would be nice if manufacturers were required to list both; bhp and whp, but they'd probably fight that.

 

[lion shf]

If the spec says bhp (brake horsepower) that's at the crank; if it says whp (wheel horsepower), that's the power actually making it to the wheels, which is the real number you want to know, but that's also always less than bhp, so manufacturers rarely use whp in their marketing. If the number is listed as bhp or just hp, that's not whp or rwhp (rear wheel horsepower).

It would be nice if manufacturers were required to list both; bhp and whp, but they'd probably fight that.

I didn’t know this

 

[Forlorn]

@Eagle7 ... I shed a tear with your post. Not because you are wrong, but because you might be right. With such a full order book already, how does the V6 Final happen? I am hoping that their is a business case for it. If there is not a business case, then go the Porsche route. They never needed to build the 718 GT4RS, but they did. The last of ICE from Lotus deserves to be the best version. It shows something special. That they weren't willing to leave anything on the table. I would think these upgrades would be worth an additional 15-20K GPB over the V6 FE price.

I still think they will do it and I will list my most wanted options just in case someone at lotus reads this...

Carbon Bucket Seats from Evija
Magnesium Wheels
Carbon Ceramic brakes (optional)
Carbon Roof / Carbon Upper Black pack (instead of black paint)
Titanium Exhaust (optional)
Open shifter (no leather boot)
430-450 BHP / higher redline
Sport Suspension

*no wing, the body lines look good as is*

They tried this with the Evora430. The take up was very limited in both track and GT version. I think for the less downforce cars (without rear spoilers) they sold 2 one right hand drive the other in mainland Europe) overall they were over £110k in 2017/18. Almost £30k above regular cars. They had a lot of carbon, but so did the 410. To reduce weight they took out infortainment, reduced water bottle size and had lithium battery option. Adjustable Ohlins, So an Emira with 430bhp will be in that ball park. Let alone inflationary costs etc.

 

[Matt]

In terms of straight line acceleration, LOTUS never make it impressive. People love LOTUS because of the driving dynamic. Personally I tried EVORA GT410, I think it was even slower than a GT86 with turbo kits.

 

[Leonard]

Did you drive an OG M2, or M2C or M2CS? I agree that the N55 OGM2 was underwhelming. M2C is fast as hell but it's a mid range car, not a drag races. CS is on another level at the track, and from about 35mph up. I have driven every variant of M2 on road, canyons/mountains and own a CS that I track regularly so I have no illusions that the Emira V6 will keep up. It won't. It's above the visceral feel, flow, handling and balance that the Emira will be better. Also lower center of gravity..

M2 Comp.
405bhp is a fair chunk, but it was a heavy car and you could tell.
I liked it but didn't love it.
Engine was good but not particularly characterful. Same with suspension it was OK but over damped and sprung like most BMWs.
Came alive in the damp, but if I'm honest I didn't always want to play
In the end I decided it needed a suspension and exhaust upgrade but wasn't prepared to drop any more money on it

 

[Magicman]

Most manufacturers claim a car has XX HP of the engin crankshaft output. However, SUPRA has 380HP on wheels and it could be easily tuned to 500HP.Not to mention the smart electronic system that could reduce the slipping.

No it really doesn't have 380whp , not standard at least

Tbh it didn't feel like it had the 340bhp at the crank it's supposed to have although the crap gearbox might have helped with that impression

 

[fatjase]

I would love to hear your feedback once you drive the GT3. I have driven a 991.2 GT3 PDK on public roads. It did everything right and effortlessly, which unfortunately translated to boring.

These are track cars that prefer living on the edge. Journalists and their track reviews make us super excited about them, but then when we drive these cars on public roads (next to proper sports cars like GR86/BRZ) we complain that they don’t feel raw or special enough.

I do wonder if it will be more of the same GT4 recipe as you say so I will be happy to provide the feedback when I've had some quality time with it. I've spoken with a few GT3 owners at various car events and quite a few have shifted them on because they are just too fast on the public roads to enjoy.

My friend had an 2018 Aston Martin Vantage with the AMG V8 in it and that was an event every time you drove it because it sounded wonderful all the time and it looked stunning (to my eyes at least) and i could forgive it the aged infotainment system borrowed from Mercedes-Benz because of those things. I'd have one over a GT4 or GT3 for sure.

 

[emiraspain]

Isn’t this what Chris Harris alluded to, GT4 track biased. Emira better for the road.

not just alluded, stated clearly.... and not deluded, cant recall if he had sports of touring, a bit sick of it all now... who has ever done this before , S o T.... just give me an ST.

 

[kitkat]

No it really doesn't have 380whp , not standard at least

Tbh it didn't feel like it had the 340bhp at the crank it's supposed to have although the crap gearbox might have helped with that impression

Thankfully, we don’t measure power and torque by feel, and there are loads of dyno runs on stock cars from community members for that car and car media publications on a number of different types of dynos that simply say otherwise.